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27 Comments Rebuttal
Okay, today’s subject i am going to talk here is quite important. Which means it’s quite controversial too.
I will proclaim my usual statements when i talk about this subject so that some sorry ass punk cannot grade me as a RSS/VHP fanatic or a Hindu extremist.
I studied in an Anglo-Indian (Christian) school all my life with the exception of high school. I went to a Roman Catholic College (Loyola) and most of my friends from my childhood are Anglo Indians. Some of my closest friends in the present day are Anglo Indians / Christians too.
So before you label me as an anti Christian and an extremist, halt. Verify the credibility of this information about my childhood and logically analyze the facts i have given here. Arguments are welcome but let it be scientific and logical; bullshit will be rewarded with the same.
So now that you have kind of figured out that i am going to talk about Christians or Christianity let me break your anxiety by saying its neither! I’m going to talk about “Christian Conversion Activities” in India.
I will break this up in 3 parts for your understanding…
- The background and context in which the Christianity comes to India in the 20th century and the present 21st century
- The current conversion activities and the methodologies practiced and used.
- How to avoid a missionary, what questions to ask and how the defend your faith.
Of course I will do all of this with a personal touch and incidents and examples from my own life. Why? Because I can speak best for myself and not for anyone else, fair enough? I guess so.
Note: Hindu fanatics need not make use of this opportunity to get friendly with me, I am a hardcore atheist and I will have the same amount of courtesy and bias towards Hinduism and Islam.
So what the heck makes me an expert on this topic? Very simple, i have been the target of every other Tom, Dick and Harry missionary in town from the days of my childhood to the latest one being day before yesterday, a call from some Wiesel at 2 in the night preaching about Jesus Christ the savior of my sorry broken ass.
The Background
So why am i the target of these missionaries? Simple fact is i am physically challenged and the first thing they see in that is a sign of weakness. Obvious they think i would convert with a little bit of persuasion and lure of things and money, yeah right!
Back in my good old school days I was preached over and over again by the Christian school that Jesus is the only god and that there is no other god. Come out of school you have these prayer houses which have posters all over the place stating up front that all Hindu gods are variations of the devil or so called saiton.
Funny that .89 billion Hindus don’t have one bad thing to say about these Christian missionaries that propagate nothing but hatred and religious extremism in the neighborhood. Perhaps it’s too much of this tolerance nonsense that is becoming to be more of cowardice even though Hinduism is being butchered everyday by the people and the system in India.
Firstly let me start off by saying that Christianity is dying, hell yes. If you don’t believe me well good for Christianity but it make not an ounce of difference. The amount of funds that the Vatican is getting everyday is coming down and the base for Christianity and Christian priests is declining by the day. Hang on; this is not some bullshit I am ripping off your spine but from the pope himself.
According to Pope Benedict, “there is no longer evidence in the western world for a need of God, even less of Christ.”
Satisfied? Still don’t believe me, read the news baby, its there for you to gulp, unfortunately!
For a more detailed article see here.
So back on our topic, what happens when the western world is too expensive for them to afford themselves? They outsource, which is precisely why they come to third world countries like India and Africa etc.,
Making more crowd base for the Christian community is easier here because Indians are still under the grip of religion to a major extent and we do not accept things like science and reasoning when placed on par with religion. Obviously it’s easy to convince the uneducated masses in India that Christianity is their solution to all of the problems they have with Hinduism. It’s a fair deal since Hinduism lacks one component which every other religion and community in the world is better at. Unity, period. We are divided by so many castes, languages and communities and innumerable barriers that by the time we try and spread a message of unity it is often misinterpreted by someone down the chain, much like the Chinese whisper game.
Starting with the early 19th century and long before that the British invasion and rule the smartest thing that the Vatican managed to do is establish strong grounds on the educational front of the country by establishing schools and colleges which now blatantly misinterpret Hinduism as a “Caste System” based religion that discriminates people and how the rich Brahmin priests have fun while the Dravidians and lower caste people suck for a days meal. To a minor extent this is true but majority of the stuff is misinterpreted anyways. So now all you got to do is preach the goodness of Christianity as half the job (demonizing Hinduism) has already been done by education.
Let’s move on…
How Stuff works?
No missionary or preacher in your account will approach someone like Tata Birla or forget Tata Birla; they would not approach a candidate like me who makes a few lakhs of rupees per annum in a software company, well educated with a decent financial and social background. Why? Because conning people like us is not a joke neither does sentimental blackmail work with us, unless of course again you are like me, a physically or mentally challenged person with a staunch sign of weakness and regression.
For a good example on what kind of dubious methods Missionaries use to convert people look here but we will move on with my account right away.
Usually I get approached by an ordinary person who is a Christian like you and me and they try and tell me that I have hope in life (as if I told them I have lost it!) and that I can be cured! They promise me of miracles and give me countless no. of miracles and instances and evidence as to how people like me have been cured. When I put up an argument then comes the part which is the killer weapon.
They lure me, they start making statements like “I know deep inside that you want something which we can give” sort of stuff. Usually what they indicate by this is two things, its most of the time money and in rare instances sex. Yep, I have been offered that too, great sex if I would come pray at a church. No kidding, one important thing to note here is they will never ever talk about Christianity or conversion here at any given point of time.
I have been to churches (to the b
est of my knowledge) at least 50 or a 100 times on the invitation of close friends and teachers or principals or any acquaintance I would have made. Now here is where the strategy lies. Just like in marketing the front runner generates the lead and passes it on to the big guys who do the selling when you go to these churches you would have a big guy. Occasionally this guy might be a father (priest/vicar) but most of the time it’s the person you are most comfortable with and this guy will be the most famous guy, say for example like a guitarist for the church band or a keyboard player whom usually fascinate people with their humor and artistic capabilities. They for sure know that nothing sells like art does and that its easy to talk to people at a personal level using art than any other form of communication, especially children and people with conditions like physical disabilities or personal problems.
So usually you would find someone who is like quite comfortable to talk with and this person would be the one who will start the topic of being regular to a the church or the prayer group. Then you start going to the place when one fine day out of the blue they will give you an English name, which is when you start to think something is so ridiculously funny about the whole setup. I usually refrain from attending the prayer meetings or the gospel concerts at this point of time and then comes the good friend starry guy from the place who tries and figure out what’s wrong. As soon as he figures out that you have potentially lost interest in this religion shit he starts with the emotional blackmail.
It’s usually the story of how I deserve to be born as a physically challenged person and how much I have sinned (yes, he made a note of all my sins in a Microsoft excel worksheet right from my birth) and how Jesus can relieve me and how pathetically the Hindu gods have failed to help me all this while. If this shit does not work then comes lure of money and a “Comfortable” living with support and help of the community. The final resort is the guy tries to change the topic and tries to find out what you want to do with life etc., kind of bullshit. Obvious that at some point in time I would have talked about things like what I expect in a girlfriend/wife with one of these folks in a very casual conversation like you do with the friends you trust.
At this point of time the guy usually walks away and a girl replaces the advisor position. Usually there is physical contact. Okay, shut up u perverts not that kind of physical contact! A hug, a kiss on the cheek, teary talks of how wonderful a person I am and how much everybody loves me (usually she quotes the names of all the prettiest babes in the church or prayer committee with whom I would have hanged out/flirted around with) and misses me at the place. How it’s not anymore fun without me and a whole load of emotional shit no rational woman would talk to me. Being the person that I am I very well know that the least possibility of a woman getting so emotional with me is like a one is to a million chances. If at all that happens it would be a close friend and for a different, genuine reason. Nevertheless they talk of things like how pretty Hindu (Brahmin is a more appropriate word) women wear crappy clothes and are only after money and wont care a shit about my sorry lame ass and would never marry me but Christian women (like the ones in the church or prayer group) are really genuine loving and caring. In the worst case scenario the last attempt resort would be a threat of the world coming to an end by 2000 and I better convert since Christ is going to kill all non believers (I thought he was supposed to be a resort of kindness and love and forgiving!) anyways.
Luckily that shit did not happen and this 2000 year crap has now for some unfortunate dumb reason become 2020, 2010, 2015 and 2008 according to whatever church or group that preaches it.
Rebuttals, the goodies part!
Why am I doing this? I know how painful it is to waste time. The most irritating way to waste time is someone trying to preach you shit they don’t practice themselves and you trying to get yourself out of the situation in vain. Seriously, getting out of an argument with a missionary is a pain! They know their stuff and they have done their homework well, so we better be prepared. If you want to get out of a situation you have to talk your way out of it, just like how you avoid an insurance agent or that friend of yours who wants you to join Amway!
Here are simple pointers that will be helpful…
- Dan Brown is your fucking god! If you have not read the “Da Vinci Code” you better do it now! Tell the missionary that you have read the Da Vinci Code and the “Angels and Demons” and that Jesus was a good political leader but no son of god shit. This will set them on the back foot, once you are on the offensive there is no turning back and the missionary is going to shit his pants! As you already know offense is the best form of defense.
- Tell them you are an atheist even if you are not one. They know very well atheists are rock solid nuts to crack than religious people and will eventually be more cautious. When you are unrealistically cautious you fuck up, which is precisely what you will do.
- Start preaching Hinduism (if you are a Hindu) or Islam (if you are a Muslim) or your religion (if you are religious, whatever you belong to, Jews, Jains…) this will irritate anyone. It’s like trying to sell an insurance policy to a door salesman who came to sell you a vaccum cleaner. Double Jeopardy!
- There are loads of shit you can talk about the bible, pick controversial statements like where the bible says (Old Testament) its “ok to sell your daughter into slavery” and “disobedient children can be stoned to death”. If they tell you the New Testament is the IN THING and nobody cares about the old one, well be happy. They just walked into their grave because the New Testament has better shit on it than the old man!
- Current Research says that the New Testament contradicts itself 143 times! I LOVE YOU bible, LOL (like I love you rasna, ad!) now that’s some cooked up shit and god did not order the bible to be written. For a list of all contradictions check here. Bring this up and your missionary is going to cry for help.
- The name of the game is about saving your pride and your point of view. Never give it up, provide straightforward and simple scientific reasoning and stress your missionary to respond with the same logical reasoning. He can’t do it on the next 5000 years, forget today and tomorrow. For example ask how can Noah load all 100 billion species of plants and animals in one ship (bible says it’s a boat, damn!) at a time. First the whole “two of every animal male and female”. How could that be possible, not only is it a pain to gather up EVERY animal, but two of each sex. What comes from this is how this is possible. How long would it take a group of 100 people today to do that? He was one man. Now let’s say that the animals just mystically all came on there own. How did he feed them? How did he know what animals were coming and what they ate? I read something about not being able to eat animal flesh back then so what would Noah do for the animals that ate flesh. Where did he get all this food from what happened if Noah missed some animals, they must be extinct now? Maybe some of the animals died upon the ark and n
ow are gone completely. Did he bring every breed of every species? So he brought every type of every animal….wow he is good. The biggest, best ship today can’t even hold the weight that Noah’s ark must have had. It was a wooden ship carrying, who knows how much weight. All the supplies, the food for not only him and his family…but for the animals, and of course the creatures themselves. Look how much an elephant weighs…imagine there was two of them, and that just 1 creature. There are still many heavy weights, and also the different breeds of elephant. There have had to been more than just two. All in all that ship as described in the bible could not possibly hold that. Even today we could its difficult to make something that could do what Noah’s ark has done. This one story is enough to make your missionary pee hi pants. See this too, real cool. - Moses crossed the red sea? Fuck you; there is a difference between Red Sea and Reed Sea. The Reed Sea is a bed of marsh close the red sea. So what? Moses did tolerate the smell of the marsh, yeah right!
- The biggest hurdle for a Missionary is when he has to question his faith. Make that happen and you score a double goal. Ask him things as to why Christian practice is declining and why Vatican is running out of money. He will talk gibberish.
- Talk about Jesus’s wife! Hell yes, his love Mary Magdalene. Ask him what happened to the gospel of Mary Magdalene.
- Priory if Sion, talk about it, home run.
The whole point is whatever you do just don’t talk about your fucking personal problems or anything negative. About the country, disease, nothing! Any of these in his hands and this asshole will bank on it to bore you to shit.
Remember your right to freedom or speech and right to religion is in your constitutional amendment. Don’t let some Vatican funded crap weasels to steal it. If you need help or want more answers to specific questions, comment here on the blog and I shall do my best to help you take that crap weasel missionary off you ass.

Sorry my friend. The fact is everyone should preach and try to teach any good news they know but without compulsion. Christians are simply doing that. And if they force someone and convert them forcibly that is very wrong. They can only persuade you to hear what the believe is the only way to go to Heaven. So, they will invite you to hear and reason.
And if you claim that missionaries only target the poor you will be wrong. There are those who do urban ministry as well as slum and other ministries. If you say rich and influentials aren’t dared by these missionaries, you will be proved wrong.. its you who do not know the fact. Many software prof. like you are believers today.
I wish you get the facts right, simply trying to tarnish the image of other religions will get you nothing. And also, simply staying in convents or studying in Christian schools will not get you any close to the faith of Christians, so there’s nothing to proud of being so close to them. You are not….
Instead of throwing stone at them, may be you could try to learn what these guys are crazy after. Remember, they can live in peace without telling the so-called good news to others but they choose to.. because there is a good reason…
With regards,
Aman
Good one Dilip. I have my own group of good Christian friends where the first thing I like in them is, they don’t preach the nonsense of ‘World is coming to an end’ OR ‘the channel which I am passing through is the only way to heaven’ and all that crap. They are the true Christians. The rest (including some of my Christian friends) are purely nonsensical in their religious theories and I have least botheration to worry about their ignorance.
The irony is, nothing is original in Christianity. Nothing at all. The only thing which is original: “You are a sinner” and that’s bullshit. So there is nothing useful that a man can look in to in Christianity. The rest of the good things available in it are already there in the age old Hinduism (to be precisely called as Sanatana Dharma), Buddhism and Islam. Here, the Hinduism marches first as it doesn’t claim its origination from a person called Uncle of God or Nephew of Godman but a mere collection of truths by various sages at various times, all compiled (most of them) and formed as Vedas, Upanishads, Sutras, Puranas and the rest. Even this preaching is not originated from them for that is claimed by none other than the Buddha. He lived 2000 years before the alleged life time of Christ and yet he spoke the truth, of which the Christ only repeated.
As Gandhiji said, I don’t hate Christianity. I don’t hate Christians either. My only hatred is upon the missionary crowd and I feel pity for the ignorant masses who follow them blindly.
You are right in saying ‘talk science and reasoning to a missionary crap and you can feel him wetting his pants right there’. What if I follow everything which is (also told but not only in) in the Bible and yet don’t believe or follow the crowd of Christ? Will he punish or accept me? The answer for this question from most of the missionary fools was that I will be punished. Then I laughed at them. You are right again that they can’t convince or talk to a guy who knows his religion. They need weak hearted people or people whom they think is weak.
As Vivekananda said, there is no need of religion in this country. I say, never a half baked one!
As the believer who has commented in this blog claims, many software professionals too are believers, yeah, there are confused and weak hearted professionals too. I am no way in denying the fact that one shouldn’t follow his heart to decide what he wants. But never on ridiculing other’s belief’s which is the primary motto of the missionaries.
Religion is being and becoming. God is not so crooked. Well ahead of the christian beliefs, this world existed and flourished very well also. So the theory of ‘this is the only way to heaven’ gives uproar of laughter and nothing else.
And my suggestion to you Dilip, if you come across such blissful souls, just laught out of your ass and walk away since you can’t talk to them. They are known for saying the same crap repeatedly.
I end this by saying a joke. Jesus came running and one man stopped him to ask the reason. He said ‘the deaf knows that he is deaf, the blind knows he is blind, but a fool doesn’t know he is one’ and he ran away. I think he mentioned the missionary people only. Beware O Christ! They will preach religion to you also! LOL.
Yeah man. Remember Dinakaran? he used to have some huge meetings in Serani Arangam, What a cheat he was….Anyhow, the way I look at it, is that you just learn from these things and move on.
Dilip,
A beautiful commentary on delusional missionaries. Well done. Check out the discussion (which i was part of) http://mutiny.wordpress.com/2007/02/10/christian-aggression/
Puneet
Dear friend Dilip,
In your documents you said that, you have many Christian friends and had studied all the classes in Christian Institutions… so you say that you are loving them (you are pretending as loving them)
Before raising any comments first you know all about Christianity and Christ. It will help you lot to criticize about christianity. Empty vessels make sounds but no use of it.
You don’t hate missionaries alone. You hate all the Christians too. I don’t say this, your points say this.
Without Christians, India would not be the well developed nation.
Who gave you such a Education?
Who gave you all the medicines?
You want all the helps from Christians but don’t want Christians?
What a thankless fellow you are!!!
I love Hindus because they are my brothers. No one asked me to become a Christian. But I tasted their Love, their kindness towards needy.
If any Christian compels you, then bash him up. Without any reason if you do so, then you will have to answer for critical question.
And onemore thing, Do you really know that, Christianity is going down??? no and never.
This is the house which is built upon a mighty rock. So it won’t fallen down and it can not be.
Try to change your mindset. Christians are your co-brotheres not your enemies. Love them do not hate them. You people even love Pakistanies and Bangaladeshies who always persecute you. But you people can’t understand your brother’s love.
Hello Dilip
At first may I say that anyone who attempts to change/convert from the religion one follows is to transgress into somebody’s personal space. Normally one does not but… Most missionaries have ‘targets’ They are also financially rewarded. Hence one can conclude that it is the financial benefits that drive most missionaries. No true preacher wil ever step into another human’s personal space. One can always give talks on one’s religion and share knowledge. But to attempt to convert is simply not done.You can always quote from the Bible Jesus famous last words “Forgive them O Lord for they know not what they do”
In my school days I amongst many others had the great fortune to have had a teacher called Kuruvilla Jacob. Some of us attended volutarily the morning chapel. Not once had he ever attempted to convert. Never ever had disrespect for other faiths.
The tenets he instilled on values in life are today ingrained in all of us.
Hey, you have brought out some really good points. But the language could have been a little more politically correct. You should try that and you would see more people agreeing on your views.
Well I am a non-religious person myself(not atheist, I do believe in God). But I like to read a lot of religious texts in as original form as possible. I am a strong believer in the reasoning that one does not need to belong to religious group to find/understand his own God or some supposedly enlightened soul(I am talking about all kinds of priests here) to tell me about his God or some set of people who try to “protect” the culture of my country.
I like that statement where you say about the missionaries not trying to preach intellectuals and people who are well off. I have observed that too and find it really funny. I am desperately waiting to meet a missionary on a nice Saturday/Sunday morning, when all my exams are done and I have nothing else to do. I love talking you see
To Anonymous,
FYI Christians didn’t bring medicine, education etc. to India or for that matter any part of the world, your ignorance shows well. You negate the huge contribution in science and math of non Christian pagan Hindu Indians, Chinese, Egyptians, Arabs, Mesopotamians, Persians, Greeks and Romans.
If it was not for the Hindu Indians you wouldn’t be counting, doing math, speaking and writing a Indo European language or for that matter doing anything. Stop spreading and proselytizing, if Jesus and Christianity is that good, you don’t need to sell it, people will come on their own and stop denigrating other belief, faith or religion or way of life to make your look superior. Truly childish on Christians’ part. I wont’ go back to the middle age of Christians severe religious persecution of non believers by the likes of Crusaders, Conquistadors etc. Unlike Hinduism which was embraced by natives in Thailand, Indonesia, Cambodia and elsewhere in Asia just like Buddhism, it didn’t need coercion or blatant shameless peddling.
Dilip, thank for this write up! Please have a look at the following website which looks at the Christian extremism in Sri Lanka:
http://www.geocities.com/focussrilanka
Dear Dilip
Firstly i would like to appreciate your parents for bringing up a child so abusive in manners and intolerant in speech. Secondly, i appreciate your ingenuity of covering yourself in the garb of an atheist and projecting the popular majority community’s opinion. thirdly i’d like to appreciate your English grammar which seems to send some silent smiles among the kindergarten students, you being 26 and a software techie guy.
There are ten reasons ‘why you should listen to a missionary next time he talks to you’.
Reason 1
Very simple, i have been the target of every other Tom, Dick and Harry missionary in town from the days of my childhood to the latest one being day before yesterday, a call from some Wiesel at 2 in the night preaching about Jesus Christ the savior of my sorry broken ass.
In spite of this Jesus loves you.
Reason 2
Firstly let me start off by saying that Christianity is dying, hell yes.
the stone which the builders despised has become the capstone.
pope is as good as you are, he is anti-christ.
In spite of this Jesus loves you.
Reason 3
No missionary or preacher in your account will approach someone like Tata Birla or forget Tata Birla;
Before anyone dies; it is God’s provision for them to hear about the Lord Jesus Christ, his only begotten Son.
In spite of this Jesus loves you.
Reason 4
they would not approach a candidate like me who makes a few lakhs of rupees per annum in a software company, well educated with a decent financial and social background.
son of man if you see the wicked and warn him not to change his ways and the wicked dies in his wickedness; I will require his blood of thee( I will hold you responsible for his life)So preaching the gospel is an express command by God to every true christian, we are not exempted from it.
In spite of this Jesus loves you.
Reason 5
Because conning people like us is not a joke neither does sentimental blackmail work with us, unless of course again you are like me, a physically or mentally challenged person with a staunch sign of weakness and regression.
I will catch the cunning in their own craftiness. Proverbs
It is God’s love that he made himself known to you several times in your life time. So when you die unrepented, you will have no excuse, becuase you have rejected God’s plan for your life.
In spite of this Jesus stands at the door of your heart and knocks at it to let him in, he loves you.
Reason 6
Usually I get approached by an ordinary person who is a Christian like you and me and they try and tell me that I have hope in life (as if I told them I have lost it!)
i havent seen you; but your article clearly shows that you are quite pessimistic in nature and cynical in approach. Trust me and get checked by a qualified clinical psychologist.
The wages of sin is death.
What is man whose life is in the breath of his nostrils that You should be so mindful of him?- Bible
In spite of this God is longsuffering that all should come to a knowledge of Him, so it pleased that He took the form of a human being to lead us back to Him.
Jesus loves you.
Reason 7
They promise me of miracles and give me countless no. of miracles and instances and evidence as to how people like me have been cured.
If you believe in Him, He is able to keep you faultess and blameless without spot. Let it be according to your faith.
In spite of this Jesus loves you.
Reason 8
They lure me, they start making statements like “I know deep inside that you want something which we can give” sort of stuff.
Unless the Father attracts him, no man can come to me. The light shines in darkness, because the deeds of this world are darkness, they hate the light. John’s gospel
In spite of this Jesus loves you.
Reason 9
Usually what they indicate by this is two things, its most of the time money and in rare instances sex.
Don’t you know that your body is the temple of God; if anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him.
A false accusation dear brother, God forgive you.
In spite of this Jesus loves you.
Reason 10
At this point of time the guy usually walks away and a girl replaces the advisor position.
Remember bad company corrupts good character. Be not decieved, for God shall not be mocked.
In spite of all this Jesus still loves you.
Dear Dilip
You have tried enough to tarnish the image of Christ, Church and christians in the most insidious manner. The ten reasons are just examples of how gross a man you are. still god loves you so much that he doesnt want you to end up in eternal damnation.
If you suspect Jesus and his Godhead, ask him whether He is real or not? He will answer. Trust me, He will answer.
If you dont want, fine, i wish you all the best in this life. but remember after you leave this world all hope abandoned.
Dear Anonymous Coward who cannot reveal your stupid name cuz your parents did not teach you how to be brave, read on you lame prick…
There is no reason for you to comment on my parents and in my upbringing. All you Christian fanatic shit loads can do is bring up the fact that im abusive? What a loser you are.
Jesus loves me? I say screw jesus, in his name there has been enough bloodshed and you Christians have killed much around the world and have frail regards for another culture and civilization.
The very fact that you cannot logically contest any of my sensible points shows your brain is no larger than that of a common ground squirrel.
Please dont give me your “Jesus Still loves you” shit because that does not work with me. Im an atheist and i dont need to cover myself with anything unlike you missionary terrorists who cover yourselves in the name of charity.
Next time you come around here try show you face and tell us your name you anonymous coward. I dont have time and place for losers like you here.
I call myself a follower of Dilip. Afer thatI do enough gory things in the name of Dilip. If someone starts hating Dilip, who is responsible? Dilip or I?
Raguvansh, you can be as gory as you want and use my name to justify you crimes but i can still bet my ass that you cant be half as gory and criminally insane as the Christian missionaries are in third world countries like India.
I am 100% agree with you.
Indian Communists become communists to acquire wealth and to propogate christianity. Time and again this has been proved through Independence in every state in India. Most of the communists are rich real estate brokers in towns while their jungle counterparts are indulging in rich forest wealth- timber, gold and diamonds.. Recent reports in newspapers clearly point to naxals increasing reach of Diamond and gold bearing regions. already they supply these metals indirectly to the big mumbai firms. now they might alliance with debeers.
In Urban places, they swear by the Bible. Their only target this whole year in Andhra Pradesh in the so called “bhoo poratam” was temple sites. These temple sites are then distributed amongst the CONVERTS. Aiding them of course is their supreme boss, YS Reddy. They wear simple clothes, but their assets value swells in crores. It is not to say that all communists are into this, but nearly 90% of them certainly are. The Real communism is preached and practised by the remaining 10% like Mr.Raghavalu in AP. Narayana, his counterpart keeps wavering by moods. Of course, they all are ANTI-Hindu, but would do anything to promote christianity and islam.
Christian Churches received 100′s of acres during British Rule. It was so called Secular rule that the govt did not scrap these churches Vast properties during independence. but neither the government nor the communists will target the vast assets of the Churches? WHY???? If the communists have answer to this, then only will anyone believe that they are SECULAR. They are not and neither is Congress nor most of the regional players. Why are Hindu Sites alone targeted?
I have got a good one.
According to Christian beliefs Adam and eve were the first two humans on earth. They are the ultimate ancestors to every human on earth.
This means that all those who believe in this admit to the fact that they are the result of incest among Adam and eve’s children. We have a few colourful words for such people in Hindi
Growing up in America with a Presbytarian church on the corner of my street and a Baptist or some other (Mormon, etc) evangelical church on nearly every major street intersection (yes I grew up in the overconservative South) I was regularly approached by “servants of God” (with many other self-created nicknames) who continually tried to discount the glory (I believe anyway) of my Hindu faith. I used many of the strategies you have here (not the atheist one or the Da Vinci Code, still haven’t read the book yet) and they have worked every time – they always back off.
Actually there are WAY more Bible inaccuracies, not just the ones mentioned in the link you have provided, just search the Internet (Google or something) for “Gentle Art of Dharmic Self-Defense” or something like that, it was written by a former evangelical Christian (who is now a Hare Krishna follower ^_^ but that’s way better than preaching the Christian version of the truth with deception, atleast the HK believers are closer to what I believe is the truth but that’s irrelevant) That has more tips, mainly for Hindus, Buddhists, and Jains but for others also. There is also a very nice Jewish guide and a similar Islamic guide on how to respectfully but logically face the missionaries.
While it’s true that not all Christians are the same (though that’s true in any religion) and arguably you can say that the religion really does promote peace and these are just fanatical hypocritic criminals (which they are mostly) the problem must be addressed so that fewer will suffer and fall into their traps. And please Christians out there, don’t try to deny this. We don’t deny the criminals of our religions, so don’t deny the criminals of yours. Reform them instead, and the world will become a better place.
BTW the requirement of preaching the “Good News” is if I recall correctly another inconsistency of the Bible – it says somewhere else that God gives the knowledge to the worthy in their hearts (I could be wrong, but I think I remember a missionary mentioning one of these and another mentioning the other…)
Never be against a religion, but always be against the criminals who hurt others in the name of it.
BTW – please refrain from the offensive language – I find it a LOT easier to beat the missionaries at their own game if you show them how moral YOU are as a nonbeliever in Jesus, and the profanity really doesn’t help – it just makes you seem uneducated, which obviously you are not. Another point – improving your grammar would help, too!! (Not trying to be critical, just trying to help.)
=]
Oh, also I forgot to mention a quote I heard somewhere, though I can’t remember where…
“Those who convert to Christianity are financially poor, educationally challenged, and emotionally insecure, and lacking in true faith” [not an exact verbatim quote, but close enough]
SO TRUE!! (In most cases anyway…)
This accounts for the wealthier people (software developers and who not) who convert – emotional instability is a powerful mover that pushes people to believe in anything that gives them hope, no matter how illogical or irrational, or even proven to be untrue, they may be. This goes for everything, including conversions to Christianity.
And it is likely to be said that there is nothing in Christianity that was not there before, either in Judaism (the root of all Abrahamic religions) or Hinduism (the root of all Dharmic religions) Many state that one of these cannot be original as there are some weird, sometimes eerie but random, similarities (however slight the similarities may be) that may have suggested some sort of Judeo-Vedic link. Hinduism has so far been proven to be the older one of the two, though the debate goes on…
Ji.. can I post this blog link in the RSS comunity of orkut..?
Can i contact you in any way?
May be through email..?
My mail id is armedhindu@gmail.com.. Please reply..
Hurry! Jesus on Free Trial
Every religion consists of:
1. Its core philosophy (Answers to questions like: Is there a God?
Who am I? Am I Him? How do I find out? What are valid means of knowledge? etc).
2. Its practices (traditions), essentially based on the core philosophy.
3. Symbolism (Eg: The Cross in Christianity, the Star+Crescent moon in Islam etc).
4. Important reference works (Bible, Quran, Vedas) for knowledge.
5. Other accompanying components such as the religion’s outlook towards other religious sects, its set of followers, attitude adopted for spreading the religion etc.
If the core philosophy has strong fundamentals, the rest of the components fall in line automatically, to make it a mature religion.
On
the other hand, we also end up with half-baked religions. As is day-to-day experience, lesser maturity brings in aggressiveness.
Consequently, we see a lot of aggressiveness in spreading religions today. Some logical fallacies, however, are portrayed in dialogs below.
These are not intended to have fun at the expense of aggressive religions, but to keep ourselves informed of the less-holy tactics certain religions adopt to spread.
The following is a fictional transcript between a person called “me”
(which is a set of ppl) and a typical Christian missionary. A conversation with a missionary (who is out to talk you into going to
church) may not follow the transcript below exactly. But several conversations with missionaries on various topics will get you the answers as shown in the continuous dialog below:
Missionary: Have you heard of Jesus?
Me: Yes
Missionary: He has a message for you.
Me: What?
Missionary: Read and follow Bible, you will be in Heaven for ever!
Me: Well I would love to know more about Christianity, but to start with – what happens if I don’t believe in Jesus?
Missionary: Believe me son, Jesus will show you the right path. In our everyday life, we commit so many sins that only Jesus can save us all from eternal Hell.
Me: At the philosophy level Sir, I would like to know why someone should go to hell?
Missionary: Because we all make mistakes son. Jesus has given his life-blood to save us all from the suffering that we could face. All you need to do is believe in Him.
Me: If I make a mistake I will face the punishment. What else is a better way of purifying oneself?
Missionary: Trust in Jesus and you will go to heaven.
Me: You are saying that I can make mistakes, trust Jesus and go to heaven?
No I don’t think so. I prefer rebirth to face the punishment.
Missionary: Hmmm…. Do you know why Jesus faced the cross?
Me: I know, Jesus has already suffered for all our sins.
Missionary: So you have to believe in Jesus. He will take care of your Sins.
Me: No, I don’t want to trouble Jesus! I will take responsibilities myself.
Missionary: He has already suffered for our sins, you see?
Me: Then why should I worry? I can make mistakes/sins.
Missionary: No, that’s not good for the world. And then, you have to ‘believe’ in Jesus, if your sins should be absolved!!!
Me: What were people doing before Jesus was born?
Missionary: They felt God in their Heart.
Me: That means that there is a way other than Jesus. I too feel in my heart the presence of God! I follow my religion and feel God within.
Missionary: See … I am showing you an easy way of getting satisfaction in life and beyond.
Me: Sometime back, you said Jesus is the “only” way. Also your “easy way” seems too easy to give any serious answers to philosophical questions.
You have self contradictions. Western philosophers other than the church have done excellent work. Seriously, I think you should go through them. After that you can actually visit eastern philosophies.
Me: Give me those books you have… I read all religions anyway.
Thanks!
Probing a little deeper, I have actually had such conversations as
follows:
=================================================
Missionary: Read and follow Bible, you will be in Heaven for ever!
Me: What happens if I read the Quran or the gIta?
Missionary: Well, they can take you some distance, but only Jesus can show you the right path.
Me: Have you read the gIta or the Quran? Because I have gone through them, though not as a research. And I have gone thru’ the bible too.
Missionary: Well Sir, if you want to discuss in detail, you are welcome to talk to my senior in the Church on Sunday. He can give you a comparitive idea.
—–
Missionary: Jesus has already suffered for our sins, you see?
Me: Then why should I worry? I can make mistakes/sins.
Missionary: You have to ‘believe’ in Jesus!!!
Me: You know, I am sure Jesus will take care of me, even if I don’t believe him. Otherwise, he ends up with an ego problem, rt? You have incomplete information about Jesus.
—–
Me: According to Christianity, there is one life after which you either go to heaven or hell right?
Missionary: Yeah.
Me: But suppose I was born to a prostitute and a goon. And I always had company which was not the refined-class. Suppose throughout my life I never heard of Jesus. I made a lot of mistakes. Will I go to hell or will I get a better chance?
Missionary: No there is only one life.
Me: Your religion sounds funny to me and unjust.
Missionary: Jesus will see to it that you get to know Him.
Me: Then what are ‘you’ doing here?
Missionary: Jesus is finding you thru’ me.
Me: Aww… come on now!
——
Me: Tell me Sir. How is heaven?
Missionary: It has all comforts, angels, and God is with you all the time.
Me: How come only you came to earth and suffered while the angels never did?
Missionary: See … when we go to heaven, we become angels.
Me: Oh I see. So those angels were on earth sometime earlier, struggling like you are now?
Missionary: I think God created them to be in heaven, not come to earth. I am not sure about this concept. You can come over to the church this Sunday and talk to the father.
Me: If God created angels to be in heaven all the time, then He was partial to them right? They always enjoy in heaven, but you are created and find yourself on earth. Your concept needs refinement.
You know you should question a religion critically yourself, before propagating it to others.
——
Me: Also, I am curious about animals and trees. Do they have any scope to go to heaven?
Missionary: Animals and trees are created only to serve mankind.
They do not have any other purpose.
Me: What happens when they die?
Missionary: Am not sure, but I can find out for you Sir and call you back.
Can I take your phone number?
Me: Sure, ok. Also find out about children who die within days from when they are born. Do they go to heaven or hell?
Missionary: I think children go to heaven.
Me: But they neither did any good (nor bad) to go to heaven. Read about what your own religion says about this.
——
Me: I also wanted details on what state you were in before you got born.
Missionary: God created us.
Me: Did you not exist before?
Missionary: No.
Me: What does God get out of creating you and this world and all other things?
Missionary: Nothing. He does not need/get anything. He only helps you out.
Me: No, no. You don’t need help before you were created right?
Missionary: There are certain things that God does which we cannot understand.
Me: Do you know that there are religions in this world which have good theories for these questions? I am sure you yourself realize that your explanation is a trivial case.
Missionary: Well, it’s your faith Sir. But then, I would still say that Jesus is the only way out.
Me: Wow, don’t you want to even hear about another theory? And you expect me to actually change my religion.
Missionary: Sir I am sure my faith has all answers. And I am sure you will
eventually find the truth. I would like to give you this bible that you may want to peruse. If you want to discuss anything with me or the reverend, you can approach me at this number. Thank you Sir.
——
Anand!
Jesus Lied
Jesus Lied About Prayer
Jesus is quoted many times in the Bible saying that a Christian can ask for anything through prayer and receive it. He even goes so far as to say that mountains and trees can be thrown into the sea simply by praying for it. This is clearly a lie, and can be proven to be a lie by any Christian. Simply pray for me to be converted to Christianity today right away. Or better yet ask Biblical God to move the mountains behind my house. He could make a lot of converts that way. If I’m converted today, I’ll post a public apology on my web site and devote my life to Biblical God. If I’m not converted it would only be fair for you Christians to apologize and devote your life to preach against the liar Jesus.
Here are the quotes from Jesus that proves that he lied:
1) And Jesus answered and said to them, “Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, `Be taken up and cast into the sea,’ it will happen. “And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.” (Matthew 21:21-22)
2) Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. (Matthew 7:7-8)
3) Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst. (Matthew 18:19-20)
4) Amen, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it shall be done for him. Therefore I tell you, all that you ask for in prayer, believe that you will receive it and it shall be yours. (Mark 11:24-25)
5) And I tell you, ask and you will receive; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. (Luke 11:9-13)
6) And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it. (John 14:13-14)
7) If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you. (John 15:7)
9) On that day you will not question me about anything. Amen, amen, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in my name he will give you. Until now you have not asked anything in my name; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete. (John 16:23-24)
A lot of Christians ignore what Jesus actually says in the Bible. They also tend to add things to the actual words to make them say something else. If you honestly and truthfully read these quotes, without adding to them, it is very easy to see that Jesus is not saying that God will think about your prayers. He says Biblical God will grant all your prayers. Clearly, God doesn’t grant all prayers and this proves that Jesus was a habitual liar.
The many lies that Jesus told about the second coming of God
According to the Bible the “End Times” Should Have ALREADY Occurred! Jesus and his apostles made MANY prophecies concerning the Armageddon. The Bible is rather clear concerning when it would happen. Matter of fact, the Bible consistently said it would follow soon after Jesus’ death. When you point out such verses to Christians they will try to weasel it out of it by saying Christ was talking about his “future” apostles versus the ones he was directly speaking to. All it takes is a close examinations of the pronouns used in order to see that Christ truly did believe the end times would have happened nearly 2,000 years ago. Keep in mind that the Bible claims it is “fit for reproof’ and Christianity “lives and dies on the resurrection and end times”.
If we are to believe these verses and accept that the end time prophecies failed then surely the whole book is invalid.
Jesus’ False Predictions:
1) Jesus falsely prophesies DIRECTLY to the high priest (Caiphas) that he would live to see his second coming. Jesus uses the term “coming on the clouds of heaven”. This clearly negates the “coming” as the resurrection but as a return to the earth on CLOUDS, not his return in human form from the dead. Matthew 26:64 & Mark 14:62.
“But I tell you: From now on you will see ‘the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power’ and ‘coming on the clouds of heaven.’” (Matthew 26:64)
Then Jesus answered, “I am; and ‘you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.’” (Mark 14:62)
2) Jesus mistakenly tells his followers that he will return and establish his kingdom within their lifetime. Matthew 23:36 & 24:34
Amen, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. (Matthew 23:36)
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a trumpet blast, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. “Learn a lesson from the fig tree. When its branch becomes tender and sprouts leaves, you know that summer is near. In the same way, when you see all these things, know that he is near, at the gates. Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. (Matthew 24:29-35)
3) YET AGAIN, Jesus claims those standing RIGHT BEFORE HIM shall see the Armageddon. Matthew 16:28 “There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
Don’t let Christians lie to you and claim Jesus was referring to his modern day Christians. The words “some standing HERE will not taste death” clearly refute such nonsense. Obviously the people he was speaking to died, and curiously Jesus STILL isn’t here to claim his kingdom.
4) Jesus falsely prophesies that the end of the world will come within his listeners’ lifetimes.
Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. (Mark 13:30-31)
He also said to them, “Amen, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see that the kingdom of God has come in power.” (Mark 9:1)
5) Jesus falsely predicts that some of his listeners would live to see him return and establish the kingdom of God.
“Truly I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God.” (Luke 9:27)
6) Jesus implies that he will return to earth during the lifetime of John. (John 21:22)
7) Jesus says that all that he describes (his return, signs in the sun, moon, wars, stars, etc.) will
occur within the lifetime of his listeners. He purposely defines their generation and NOT a future one. Considering that NONE of those signs took place during the resurrection and that he uses the term of “Heaven and earth shall pass away”, Clearly Jesus is prophesizing that nearly 2,000 years ago Armageddon SHOULD have occurred. Luke 21:25-33
“There will be signs in the sun, the moon, and the stars, and on earth nations will be in dismay, perplexed by the roaring of the sea and the waves. People will die of fright in anticipation of what is coming upon the world, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. But when these signs begin to happen, stand erect and raise your heads because your redemption is at hand.” He taught them a lesson. “Consider the fig tree and all the other trees. When their buds burst open, you see for yourselves and know that summer is now near; in the same way, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near. Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. (Luke 21:25-33)
[Note: Matthew 10:23 also has Jesus telling his disciples that the second coming will occur before the disciples finish preaching in Israel: "When they persecute you in one town, flee to another. Amen, I say to you, you will not finish the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes." (Matthew 10:23)]
The Bible is fit for worship?
Dear Christian:
I do not accept the Bible as Biblical God’s word because it contains thousand of errors and contradictions that can not be solved, only rationalized. I refuse to accept Jesus as my personal savior, for his behavior and teachings often expose one who should be escaped and not worshipped. I ask that you read this pamphlet in light of the bible’s teachings; Christians should be “open to reason” (James 3:17), that we should “reason together” (Isaiah 1:18) and “he who hates correction will die” (Proverbs 15:10) to understand my perspective that the bible has MANY shortcomings.
1. According to your Bible I am to believe that human kind is sinful for Adam and Eve ate the fruit of knowledge. Why are we being punished for the original sin? After all, they ate the forbidden fruit, we didn’t. Reason would lead one to say it’s their problem, not ours. Even the bible contradicts itself by claiming in Deuteronomy 24:16, “children shall not be punished for the sins of their fathers.”
2. We are told that the Bible has no scientific errors and is utterly perfect/protected, yet it says the bat is a bird (Leviticus 11:13 & 19), hares chew the cud (Leviticus 11:5-6), and some fowl (Leviticus 11:20-21) and insects (Leviticus 11:22-23) have four legs.
3. Heaven is supposed to be a perfect place. It is of course, the place you strive for and name “salvation”. Yet, Biblical heaven experienced a war (Revelation 12:7).
How can there be a war in a perfect place and if it happened before why couldn’t it happen again?
Why would I want to go to a place in which war can occur?
That’s exactly what I’m trying to escape, aren’t you?
4. We are told salvation is obtained by faith alone (John 3:18 & 36) and then the Bible claims that it is repentance that shall save us (2 Peter 3:9) yet Jesus told a man to follow the Commandments-Matthew 19:16-1 8 (saving by works)-if he wanted eternal life. So which way is it and how do you know your belief is the correct one?
5. According to the text there are 29 cities listed in Joshua 15:21-32. One need only count them to see that biblical math is not to be trusted. The total is 36.
6. Surely you don’t believe Ecclesiastes 1:9 (“What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done; there is nothing new under the sun”)? How many cities had an atomic bomb dropped on them prior to 1945, and how many people walked on the moon before 1969?
7. If the Bible is our moral guide, then how can it make pornographic statements such as: “…they may eat their own dung and drink their own piss with you” (2 Kings 18:27)?
Also consult Numbers 31 where a whole tribe of people, including the elderly and children are slaughtered. The only survivors were the virginal women, who were later raped by the “just and perfect” Moses and his men. Is that what you want your children reading on Sunday?
8. If Biblical God created everything, (Colossians 1:16, Ephesians 3:9, Revelation 4:11 & John 1:3), then he did create the world’s evil (Isaiah 45:7, Lamentations 3:38). Thus, he is responsible. Any being who could create situations such as rape, death, malnutrition, disease, molestation and murder is certainly not fit for worship.
9. For justice to exist, punishment must fit the crime. No matter how many bad deeds one commits in this world, there is a limit. Yet, hell’s punishment is infinitely greater. It’s eternal. Shouldn’t a sinner suffer until remorse is felt and the crime is atoned for? What “justice” is there in infinite damnation?
10. Jesus said, “Whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire” (Matthew 5:22).
Yet, he himself did so repeatedly, as Matthew 27:19, Luke 11:40 & 12:20 show. Shouldn’t he be in danger of hell too?
Jesus also told us to “Love your enemies; bless them that curse you,” but ignored his own advice by repeatedly denouncing his opposition.
Matthew 12:34 (“0 generation of vipers”), and Matthew 23 :27 (“… hypocrites… ye are like unto whited sepulchres.“) are excellent examples of hypocrisy.
If Jesus himself is a sinner by his own admission then surely he can not be the “perfect lamb of God”.
11. Except those of biased Christian writers, there isn’t one writing outside the Bible in all of ancient history that clearly refers to Jesus of Nazareth. The decision to dedicate my life to a deity requires at least one shred of conclusive evidence. Your lord knows non Christians exist as a result of this, yet he makes no attempt to supply proof. How can the bible claim God wants all in heaven if he doesn’t make efforts to ensure that we all believe in him?
12. Paul says Christianity lives or dies on the Resurrection ( Corinthians 15:14-17). Yet Jesus made many promises concerning his return during the lifetime of his then followers. (Matthew 16:28: “There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom”. Matthew 23:36, 24:34, Mark.9:1, 13:30, Luke 9:27, 21:32 & John 21:22) None of these prophecies have come true.
Does this not make Jesus a false prophet? If so wouldn’t that make Christianity invalid?
13. I find the idea that a man had to die for my sins revolting. If Biblical God was truly omnipotent he could have simply forgiven us.
What kind of deity, would execute one child in order to forgive it’s others?
Modern society would call an individual like this sadistic, insane and cruel.
Surely, you would not worship a child killer, why do you expect me to?
Would you find a judge worthy of the title who would allow my child to be executed in lieu of my sins?
14. John 14:12 states a follower in Jesus can perform any of his works and do it even greater. If you continue to insist I believe in Jesus, it is only fair I may ask of you to show just how strong your faith is. After all, you would be my “mentor” in Christ. I’m not a Christian as of yet, but surely you are.
Would you mind perhaps resurrecting a dead relative or walking on water?
15. Okay, obviously you didn’t do number 14 and backed out with the “this is metaphorical” excuse. Surely you can try Mark 16:17-1 8 which says Christians can drink “any deadly thing” and “it shall not hurt” them. But I don’t think you would be naive enough to drink any arsenic offered. Perhaps I’m wrong and you would be willing to test the Book’s veracity-”lay it on the line” so to speak?
16. All right, so now you have backed out of two of my questions. I’m starting to think you don’t really care about my salvation as much as you claim. Well, unlike your Jehovah, I shall be kind and offer a third chance at redemption. Consider Jesus’ teaching in Luke 6:30 “Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.” Perhaps, if you emptied your wallet and “give of thee” I may seriously ponder accepting Jesus as my savior. A far greater number of Biblical discrepancies can be found on the web at the following addresses:
http://web2.airmail.net/capella/aguide/main.htm
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com
http://www.cygnus-study.com
Read full at:
http://evilbiblequran.googlepages.com/evilbible.htm
nfidels and Gays Should Die
So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God’s death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)
Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle
For the LORD had said to Moses, ‘Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.’ (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)
Kill People for Working on the Sabbath
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: ‘Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.’ (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
2) Biblical God’s Murders for Stupid Reasons:
Kill Brats
From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. “Go up baldhead,” they shouted, “go up baldhead!” The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24)
Biblical God Kills the Curious
And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and’ fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter. And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us? (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)
Killed by a Lion
Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, “Strike me!” But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, “Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me.” And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him. (1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT)
Killing the Good Samaritan
The ark of God was placed on a new cart and taken away from the house of Abinadab on the hill. Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab guided the cart, with Ahio walking before it, while David and all the Israelites made merry before the Lord with all their strength, with singing and with citharas, harps, tambourines, sistrums, and cymbals.
When they came to the threshing floor of Nodan, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God to steady it, for the oxen were making it tip. But the Lord was angry with Uzzah; God struck him on that spot, and he died there before God. (2 Samuel 6:3-7)
3) Murdering Children
Kill Sons of Sinners
Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21)
Biblical God Will Kill Children
The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered.” O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don’t give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, “All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children.” (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)
Kill Men, Women, and Children
“Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, “Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple.” So they began by killing the seventy leaders. “Defile the Temple!” the LORD commanded. “Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!” So they went throughout the city and did as they were told.” (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)
Biblical God Kills all the First Born of Egypt
And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)
Kill Old Men and Young Women
“You are my battle-ax and sword,” says the LORD. “With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms. With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer. With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens. With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers. “As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem,” says the LORD. “Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth! I am your enemy,” says the LORD. “I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights. When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble. You will be desolate forever. Even your stones will never again be used for building. You will be completely wiped out,” says the LORD. (Jeremiah 51:20-26)
(Note that after Biblical God promises the Israelites a victory against Babylon, the Israelites actually get their butts kicked by them in the next chapter.
So much for an all-knowing and all-powerful Biblical God.)
Biblical God Will Kill the Children of Sinners
If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)
More Rape and Baby Killing
Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)
Ignorance is bliss. Christians should not practice free inquiry nor socialize with non Christians:
Don’t associate with non-Christians. Don’t receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them. 2 John 1:10
Shun those who disagree with your religious views. Romans 16:17
Paul, knowing that their faith would crumble if subjected to free and critical inquiry, tells his followers to avoid philosophy. Colossians 2:8
Why I Am Not A Christian:
Introduction:
This essay was inspired by the consistent assumption of Christians that if I believed the Bible were true, I would become a Christian I do not find the state of the world in accordance with an idea of a loving and merciful higher power. Then of course there is the factor that the basis of this essay shall be about; I do not find the Biblical God fit for worship. Over the course of this essay there will be some times when I will speak as if I believe in the Bible, when in fact I do not.
I plan to examine the Bible with critical inquiry. This essay will not be based upon scientific facts and how they disprove the Bible. It shall be an application of my emotions regarding compassion, love, mercy, patience, and justice. I hope to explain more clearly why the God depicted in the Bible violates my idea of a moral being. This shall be done over a series of topics. Each pointing out how Jehovah is undeserving of my worship. I will utilize Biblical verses to support my claim as well as what I consider to be logical reasoning.
Now would be the time to ask you to please take out your bibles for consultation. I do not have the space to write out the verse in its entirety
Hell:
Hell, of course, is the mother of all of my problems with the bible. It is perhaps the most despicable and hideous of all of the Christian God’s crimes. Indeed, the cruelest of all concentration camps. (Certainly far worse than the ones created by the Nazis.) Described biblically as the “lake of fire”, “the place of eternal torment with weeping and g hing of teeth” Jesus said in Mark 9:42-48 That it is better to commit suicide or self maiming then to be delivered unto hell. So, according to the bible I assume that all here can agree that there is an existence of hell, and that hell is the worst of all circumstance. Knowing this, let me indulge you as to why the existence of hell paints the Christian Biblical God as not fit for worshiping.
I am a moderately compassionate individual, rational, moral, and nurturing. Most of all I am a creator, a mother. I propose this to you, a human question. Can all here, Christian or atheist, safely say that if there is a God, he is our greatest thought magnified? Whatever emotion we feel as human, being created in his image, Biblical God is infinitely more feeling? For he is the creator of all things created, I believe this concept is pretty safe to assume. With this being so, my love for my daughter must be a fraction of Biblical God’s love for his children. Speaking as a mother, I can safely say that if my child were to commit the greatest harm upon me tomorrow, I would never wish her harm. Why? Simply because she is my creation.
If my daughter were to maim me, slander me, etc. I would still love her, for my instinct and emotion demands of me to protect and care for her regardless of her actions, much like all rational beings (animal kingdom included). So now I pose the question, why then would Biblical God condemn us to hell for something as menial as lack of faith? If he is not infinitely more so loving then me, why would hell even exist? Any true loving being would never condemn his own children to everlasting torment, especially one that proclaims himself to having the very essence of forgiveness.
But “Biblical God Is Just” You Claim:
Most Christians have responded to this statement with the following rationalization. “Biblical God can not let all of his creations into heaven because he is just.” I ask in rebuttal to this, since when is justice more important than love in the heart of a parent? Is hell even justice, or is it simply cruel and unusual punishment? The bible states the system of justice very simply. “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. There is also another variation of that system with the biblical verse “eye for an eye”. The Christian Biblical God violates his own system of law when he damns his creations to eternal suffering for sins as menial as theft or blasphemy. I hardly think, nor would any logical person, that throwing someone into a g hing jaw would be justly befitting of nearly any crime. (With the exception of murder, and even so, eternal punishment is pretty excessive.)
Most courts of law would take custody of your child from you just for an excessive spanking. We as a people enacted these laws, for we thought them to be logical. Is Biblical God above logic, or what we deem as compassionate behavior? After all he pitches a majority of his children into a lake of “fire and brimstone.” How many of us would want a parent such as that? Anyone of us would immediately sever our ties with such an abusive person. Yet Christians knowingly continue the insanity of giving worship to a Biblical God so cruel!
“Free Will”, You Say?
It is also written that I was given free will with which to choose if I will go to hell or not. How can you possibly deem something free when you must fear consequences? That completely conflicts with the definition of free. If I were to hold a gun to your head and say “you have free will to not give me your wallet, but if you attempt to defy me I will kill you.” Does it really feel as if you have a choice in the matter? Of course not. Free means to give or receive something with out an expectation of return. The whole free will concept is self defeating. Call it Circumstantial Will, for that is what it truly is.
Despite this, I have still had the displeasure of debating with those Christians who accept hell as a rational and fair wrath of Biblical God. They defend Jehovah’s creation of hell with the opinion that those who are committed to hell go voluntary, as if it is a consequence rather then a punishment. That indeed, we as children of God, chose rather to be hell’s inmates then Biblical God’s disciples in heaven. It’s an interesting idea. However, you don’t have to hurt anyone to get into Hell. All it takes, according to Scripture, is knowing about Jesus and not accepting him as Savior. It doesn’t matter how virtuous you are, how much good you do, how happy an environment you create for others. Given this, the voluntary entry argument doesn’t make sense. The same argument could be used to justify the sending of Aryan opponents of Nazism to concentration camps: they voluntarily chose not to give homage to Hitler, so they chose to be interred. Why should we blame the Nazis for the inmates’ choice? Why should we blame Biblical God for the choice of the damned?
Genocide:
I hear a lot from Christians about Biblical God’s “infinite compassion and mercy”.
Instead of harping on me about something so unapparent, they should go tell it to the Midianites. (Please open your Bibles to Numbers 31) The following verses are a classic example of wholesale slaughter and rape under the direction of the same Biblical God they claim to be so merciful. A quick sample of this tale: On the way to the promised land, Biblical God had Moses wage a war campaign against the Midian. Moses was told to put every Midianite to death, plunder anything of value, set fire to their towns where they lived and all their encampments. Moses gave the orders to his troops (the sons of Israel) and went on a further campaign. On the return of his troops Moses was enraged with the commanders of the army. He said, “Why have you spared the life of all the women and children? You are to kill all the children and kill all the women who have slept with a man. The lord says spare the lives only of the young girls who have not slept with a man, and take them for yourselves, so that we may multiply into a great nation.” Yes, friends, this is biblical infinite mercy and compassion for you. I particularly like the way that Moses got upset with them for sparing women and male children, but allowed the young girls to be kept for later raping.
< br/> I have had some Christians proclaim that these Midianite girls were not taken for raping but marriage. How ridiculous! If you continue further in the scripture you will find that marriage to a Midianite was a crime against God. A man named Zimri, broke the law and married a Midianite woman this angered God so he sent a plague among the Hebrews. Fortunately, a zealous son of Israel speared Zimri right through the genitals, and the plague went away. So now I ask you, if you could not marry a Midianite, just what were these “virgin woman who were to help multiply” good for?
I don’t think the first born in Egypt during the captivity would have agreed with the verdict of compassion and mercy either. (Exodus 11:5 & 12:29) First of all, Jehovah is the one who purposely hardened the heart of the Pharaoh so that he would not let Moses and the Jews go. Biblical God messed with someone’s free will. Biblical God could have even teleported the Jews out of captivity without bloodshed, or put the Egyptians to sleep while they left, but no. Biblical God decided to set up a situation in which he knew he would have to punish the Pharaoh. Though this he didn’t even do. He punished the children instead. Judging from Biblical God’s previous actions, killing innocent children is much more his forte.
Lastly, please attempt to read the entire book of Joshua some evening. It is a long sequence of atrocities. I have not given all these quotes for space reasons. I urge you to look them up for yourself. Especially for Christians who are not familiar with the bible. It will leave you not only shocked and in question of just what you are worshiping, but it will give a new definition to all morality you claimed was a derivative of Biblical God. If by some chance you read Joshua and you are still compliant with the loving notion of Biblical God, I suggest you re evaluate your code of ethics.
Here is the place I will now speak of common rationalizations used for this slaughter. I have discovered via my discussions that there are two major forms: the corruption argument and the mercy argument. The former says that those slaughtered were evil and deserving of their fate; the latter says that since they were religiously incorrect, it was a mercy to terminate their existence.
The corruption argument simply does not hold up. The people slaughtered in the Old Testament were almost uniformly blameless (with a few exceptions, of course for instance, the Sodomites violated the conventions of hospitality.) Usually, no justification is offered beyond the fact that since they were of another tribe, it was OK to kill them. It goes with out saying that the hordes of slaughtered children were innocent. (*Quick tip-If Biblical God was anti abortion he wouldn’t have ordered the murder of pregnant women and young children.)
As to the mercy argument: If I don’t claim to be suffering, and don’t ask to die, neither you nor any Biblical God has the right to decide that you know better. (This would of course be a violation of my free will.) If a person tried to do this to me, I would quite frankly attempt to kill him; if a Biblical God tried, well, the only weapon I would have would be withholding my worship. Are you beginning to see why I do not comply with the worship of the Christian God?
Neglect:
Most of us, given omnipotence, would be able to do a far better job than Jehovah. What would you do if given omnipotence? If your answer is anything other than “abolish world hunger, disease or save the earth”, there’s something more than a little skewed in your perception of mankind. There is no question that the very balance of life is in peril. To wish for these things doesn’t take “infinite mercy”, just normal compassion and a bit of common sense. Biblical God’s supposed infinite mercy is apparently the same thing as no mercy at all.
What makes this particularly unforgivable is that even Jesus’ own standards demand feeding of the poor. See Matthew 25:35, in which it is stated that the blessed feed the hungry, and that the damned do not. I find it funny that Biblical God is held blameless, though, for not feeding them. Does not the old saying “practice what you preach” apply to Biblical God? Is his lack of action a hypocrisy or a sin? Could it perhaps be both?
Usually, when I bring this up in a discussion, someone says, “No. It is the evil of men that is to blame; they have lots of money and keep it to themselves rather than feeding the poor.” (Funny thing that the Christians who say this are usually conservative.) This argument uses a double standard. Men are held guilty for not feeding the poor, while Biblical God is held innocent for doing exactly the same. In fact, it would be far easier for Biblical God to feed all the poor with his omnipotence, than for any mortal man to feed even one! Mankind is certainly not blameless here, but it is Jehovah who is the true villain.
Another popular rationalization is that life without “challenges” would be boring and dehumanizing, so Biblical God does not remove them. The fallacy here is grouping all challenges together. I personally lead a very challenging and satisfying life, but I have not lately had to flee any volcanoes or earthquakes, go without food for a week, or suffer the ravages of some disease. I would be quite happy, in fact, if I never do have to face such challenges as those. There is plenty of room for amelioration of the human condition without making it dull. Does it not defeat the purpose of living life if you are to starve to death?
Faith Is Required To Know Biblical God:
Suppose you were an omnipotent God, and you demand worship, such as the Christian God. Would you give proof of your existence to those who wished to follow you? I imagine for Jehovah that it would be quite simple to perform a continual sequence of verifiable miracles. It would be quite logical in practice too, for it would keep God’s followers from delusion and doubt. There is no such luck with Jehovah though. He demands absolute fidelity without any demonstration of his existence. The only so called record of his existence is the bible. I think it pretty much goes with out saying that not only is the bible 2,000 years out dated, but it is also very unoriginal. Any Christian who proposes that the bible is indeed evidence for Biblical God’s existence is proposing a double standard. For there are many books which claim to be actual accounts of a higher power. With this in mind, why not believe in Allah from the Koran? Could it be because your faith is what determines your belief and not your so called “factual” book?
Let’s examine what faith is. The definition of faith is hope for a circumstance or thing that is not proven to be true. There is no virtue in accepting something on faith, since it may very well be false, and it is clearly not virtuous to believe the false. Faith has also been proven through out history, time and again, that it is equivalent to massive hysteria; IE: Crusades, Burning Times, Inquisitions, Holy Wars, etc. On a grand scale faith, thus far, has only proven to be an intellectual weakness, and a significant barrier to scientific and moral progress. With all of this in mind, how can Biblical God possibly expect us to view faith as the greatest way to glorify him, let alone demand this of us?
Most importantly, the point to remember here is that if we don’t believe in him, we go to Hell, and this is a greater evil than a lack of the “virtue” of faith or a stunting of science, or anything else conceivable. If Biblical God is truly concerned about the good, he will do what he can to keep us from Hell, and withholding vital information from us is the exact opposite of this.
Biblical God Is The Creator Of Evil:
I am frustrated at two specific verses in the bible, which applies to this particular topic. The first is the statement that
“Biblical God is the Alpha and the Omega”. Loosely defined it means the beginning and the end, the all knowing. Which of course implies that all of his actions and the results are fore known to him. I have a real problem with this notion. For if God was to know ahead of time that someday he would send me to hell for being a non-Christian, I ask what was the purpose in him creating me in the first place? Was it simply to watch me be tortured? That seems to be the most logical explanation. I can think of no other rational explanation, nor neither has any Christian who I posed this question to. Some people have attempted to tell me that Biblical God has a purpose unknown to us, and that we must simply accept his will. Would you keep a friend who commits evil and offers no self-justification or remorse? Of course not, so why is this same judgment not applied to God? It’s seems rather contradictory that this trait is despised in humanity, yet, it is worshiped in religion.
Secondly, I want to reinforce the fact that God is indeed the creator of evil. Please read verse Isaiah 45:7. “I form the light and create darkness. I make peace and create evil. I the lord do all these things”. The Christian God outright claims that he is indeed the source of evil. So how can he then claim to be sinless?
To be more specific, let’s talk about the lord’s creation of evil, let’s talk about the conception of Satan. This being was created and unleashed by Biblical God. Jehovah knew (for he is the all knowing) that at the time of Lucifer’s creation he would eventually become Satan, and spend his existence reeking havoc on man kind. Leading people into criminal activities. Suppose I were to build an evil robot, that I knew would go around torturing and murdering people. Whose fault would it be if I let it loose? Mine or the robot’s? Of course it would be mine, for I created it with that purpose and unleashed it for that purpose. Now I ask you, whose fault is deviltry in the world? Is it the PUPPET Satan or the being that deliberately created Satan’s evil?
Now Biblical God Plays Switch-A-Roo And Humans Are The Creators Of Evil Not only does the bible imply, but so do many Christians, that we as a people are the creator of evil. It is clear for reading the bible that this is untrue, but the speculation still remains. Supposedly, when Adam and Eve fell from grace, they single handedly brought evil into the world. All you have to do is think logically for a moment, and you will obviously see something is very unjust with this concept. Could any rational being hold a starving infant in Ethiopia responsible for the actions of two long dead people? Or perhaps, would you find it fair to be convicted of Jack the Ripper’s crimes? The connection in both of these instances are not only ludicrous but, disgusting to nod your head at. People who use this argument are simply attempting to rationalize sadism.
I must declare that a Christian that walks into a children’s ward and insists that it is correct that children suffer as a result of the original sin, must destroy themselves of all compassion and mercy. I insist that those who worship the lord knowing this hypocrisy must be as cruel as the Christian Biblical God he/she believes in. A complete and utter moral degenerate, taking stabs at protecting their belief system. A person as such would just as easily worship Satan as Biblical God in their blindness and faith. For apparently, no amount of evidence could convince him that Biblical God was bad once they decided to worship him; their basic assumption is that they are correct, which makes them untouchable by any amount of rationality.
Human Judgment
One of the criticisms most frequently leveled at me when presenting any of the above arguments has been that I have no right to judge Biblical God. A pretty feeble grasp at the straws. Christians proclaim that Biblical God is the definition of good. All morality proceeds downwards from him, so it makes no sense to apply moral standards to him. But I must interject. Biblical God allowed my ancestors Adam and Eve to eat the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge. Thus, allowing us “to be like Gods, and know the difference between good and evil”. This very biblical verse, written in the first book of Genesis, conflicts with the same argument these Christians attempt to use. If we as humans are now capable of knowing good and evil LIKE THE GODS why can’t we use our judgment? How can it be lower then God’s if Biblical God is the one who claimed that we are like him?
Let’s say for the sake of argument that I should not judge Biblical God. Well then, would it be fair to hold him up to his own standards? Please consult verses Matthew 25:41-46 We hear Jesus say: “Go away from me with your curse upon you, to the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you never gave me food; I was thirsty and you never gave me anything to drink; I was a stranger and you never made me welcome, naked and you never clothed me, sick and in prison and you never visited me. . . And they will go away to eternal punishment, and the virtuous to eternal life.”
Now, I have never personally seen Jesus feed the hungry nor, have I seen him give drink to those who thirst. But, I do personally see thousands of people die of starvation. I do not recall Jesus dispensing clothes. He has never made me feel welcome, let alone acknowledged. I see the faithful sicken and die on a daily basis. In light of this Jesus himself is the worst of all sinners; if there is no double standard he will be at the head of the line into eternal punishment. He is guilty of every crime of which he accuses the damned.
In Conclusion
I don’t think I could ever complete a whole list as to what I find objectio le regarding the bible. There are many more topics in which to tackle such as sexism, infanticide, homophobia, and the likes. Frankly, I find it too tiresome to go on any further. As I read over all that I have wrote I simply wish to close this essay with a very brief summation: I do not believe in the reality of God, except as a psychological phenomenon, but if I did believe I would not worship that horror. It violates my morality to worship a hypocritical, judgmental, self righteous murderer. In punishment, it could send me to the hell it’s made for those it dislikes, and if there was no other choice but worshiping it, I would walk in proudly.