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	<title>Comments on: Rebuttal</title>
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	<description>The man with the crutch and the tales he told...</description>
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		<title>By: Hreemkaari</title>
		<link>http://www.dilipmuralidaran.com/2007/08/rebuttal-2.html/comment-page-1#comment-128</link>
		<dc:creator>Hreemkaari</dc:creator>
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		<description>Why I Am Not A Christian:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Introduction:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    This essay was inspired by the consistent assumption of Christians that if I believed the Bible were true, I would become a Christian I do not find the state of the world in accordance with an idea of a loving and merciful higher power.  Then of course there is the factor that the basis of this essay shall be about; I do not find the Biblical God fit for worship.  Over the course of this essay there will be some times when I will speak as if I believe in the Bible, when in fact I do not.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    I plan to examine the Bible with critical inquiry.  This essay will not be based upon scientific facts and how they disprove the Bible.  It shall be an application of my emotions regarding compassion, love, mercy, patience, and justice.  I hope to explain more clearly why the God depicted in the Bible violates my idea of a moral being. This shall be done over a series of topics.  Each pointing out how Jehovah is undeserving of my worship. I will utilize Biblical verses to support my claim as well as what I consider to be logical reasoning.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    Now would be the time to ask you to please take out your bibles for consultation. I do not have the space to write out the verse in its entirety&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Hell:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    Hell, of course, is the mother of all of my problems with the bible.  It is perhaps the most despicable and hideous of all of the Christian God’s crimes.  Indeed, the cruelest of all concentration camps.  (Certainly far worse than the ones created by the Nazis.)  Described biblically as the “lake of fire”, “the place of eternal torment with weeping and g hing of teeth” Jesus said in Mark 9:42-48 That it is better to commit suicide or self maiming then to be delivered unto hell. So, according to the bible I assume that all here can agree that there is an existence of hell, and that hell is the worst of all circumstance. Knowing this, let me indulge you as to why the existence of hell paints the Christian Biblical God as not fit for worshiping.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    I am a moderately compassionate individual, rational, moral, and nurturing.  Most of all I am a creator, a mother.  I propose this to you, a human question.  Can all here, Christian or atheist, safely say that if there is a God, he is our greatest thought magnified?  Whatever emotion we feel as human, being created in his image, Biblical God is infinitely more feeling?  For he is the creator of all things created, I believe this concept is pretty safe to assume.  With this being so, my love for my daughter must be a fraction of Biblical God’s love for his children.  Speaking as a mother, I can safely say that if my child were to commit the greatest harm upon me tomorrow, I would never wish her harm.  Why?  Simply because she is my creation.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    If my daughter were to maim me, slander me, etc.  I would still love her, for my instinct and emotion demands of me to protect and care for her regardless of her actions, much like all rational beings (animal kingdom included). So now I pose the question, why then would Biblical God condemn us to hell for something as menial as lack of faith?  If he is not infinitely more so loving then me, why would hell even exist?  Any true loving being would never condemn his own children to everlasting torment, especially one that proclaims himself to having the very essence of forgiveness.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;But “Biblical God Is Just” You Claim:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    Most Christians have responded to this statement with the following rationalization.  “Biblical God can not let all of his creations into heaven because he is just.”  I ask in rebuttal to this, since when is justice more important than love in the heart of a parent?  Is hell even justice, or is it simply cruel and unusual punishment?  The bible states the system of justice very simply.  “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.  There is also another variation of that system with the biblical verse “eye for an eye”.  The Christian Biblical God violates his own system of law when he damns his creations to eternal suffering for sins as menial as theft or blasphemy.  I hardly think, nor would any logical person, that throwing someone into a g hing jaw would be justly befitting of nearly any crime.  (With the exception of murder, and even so, eternal punishment is pretty excessive.)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    Most courts of law would take custody of your child from you just for an excessive spanking.  We as a people enacted these laws, for we thought them to be logical. Is Biblical God above logic, or what we deem as compassionate behavior?  After all he pitches a majority of his children into a lake of “fire and brimstone.”  How many of us would want a parent such as that?  Anyone of us would immediately sever our ties with such an abusive person. Yet Christians knowingly continue the insanity of giving worship to a Biblical God so cruel!&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;“Free Will”, You Say?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    It is also written that I was given free will with which to choose if I will go to hell or not.  How can you possibly deem something free when you must fear consequences?  That completely conflicts with the definition of free.  If I were to hold a gun to your head and say “you have free will to not give me your wallet, but if you attempt to defy me I will kill you.”  Does it really feel as if you have a choice in the matter?  Of course not.  Free means to give or receive something with out an expectation of return.  The whole free will concept is self defeating.  Call it Circumstantial Will, for that is what it truly is.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    Despite this, I have still had the displeasure of debating with those Christians who accept hell as a rational and fair wrath of Biblical God.  They defend Jehovah’s creation of hell with the opinion that those who are committed to hell go voluntary, as if it is a consequence rather then a punishment.  That indeed, we as children of God, chose rather to be hell’s inmates then Biblical God’s disciples in heaven.  It’s an interesting idea.  However, you don’t have to hurt anyone to get into Hell.  All it takes, according to Scripture, is knowing about Jesus and not accepting him as Savior.  It doesn’t matter how virtuous you are, how much good you do, how happy an environment you create for others. Given this, the voluntary entry argument doesn’t make sense.  The same argument could be used to justify the sending of Aryan opponents of Nazism to concentration camps: they voluntarily chose not to give homage to Hitler, so they chose to be interred. Why should we blame the Nazis for the inmates’ choice?  Why should we blame Biblical God for the choice of the damned?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Genocide:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    I hear a lot from Christians about Biblical God’s “infinite compassion and mercy”.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    Instead of harping on me about something so unapparent, they should go tell it to the Midianites. (Please open your Bibles to Numbers 31)  The following verses are a classic example of wholesale slaughter and rape under the direction of the same Biblical God they claim to be so merciful.  A quick sample of this tale: On the way to the promised land, Biblical God had Moses wage a war campaign against the Midian.  Moses was told to put every Midianite to death, plunder anything of value, set fire to their towns where they lived and all their encampments.  Moses gave the orders to his troops (the sons of Israel) and went on a further campaign.  On the return of his troops Moses was enraged with the commanders of the army.  He said, “Why have you spared the life of all the women and children?  You are to kill all the children and kill all the women who have slept with a man. The lord says spare the lives only of the young girls who have not slept with a man, and take them for yourselves, so that we may multiply into a great nation.”  Yes, friends, this is biblical infinite mercy and compassion for you. I particularly like the way that Moses got upset with them for sparing women and male children, but allowed the young girls to be kept for later raping.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;
br/&gt;    I have had some Christians proclaim that these Midianite girls were not taken for raping but marriage.  How ridiculous!  If you continue further in the scripture you will find that marriage to a Midianite was a crime against God.  A man named Zimri, broke the law and married a Midianite woman this angered God so he sent a plague among the Hebrews.  Fortunately, a zealous son of Israel speared Zimri right through the genitals, and the plague went away.  So now I ask you, if you could not marry a Midianite, just what were these “virgin woman who were to help multiply” good for?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    I don’t think the first born in Egypt during the captivity would have agreed with the verdict of compassion and mercy either.  (Exodus 11:5 &amp; 12:29)  First of all, Jehovah is the one who purposely hardened the heart of the Pharaoh so that he would not let Moses and the Jews go.  Biblical God messed with someone’s free will.  Biblical God could have even teleported the Jews out of captivity without bloodshed, or put the Egyptians to sleep while they left, but no.  Biblical God decided to set up a situation in which he knew he would have to punish the Pharaoh.  Though this he didn’t even do.  He punished the children instead.  Judging from Biblical God’s previous actions, killing innocent children is much more his forte.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    Lastly, please attempt to read the entire book of Joshua some evening. It is a long sequence of atrocities. I have not given all these quotes for space reasons. I urge you to look them up for yourself. Especially for Christians who are not familiar with the bible. It will leave you not only shocked and in question of just what you are worshiping, but it will give a new definition to all morality you claimed was a derivative of Biblical God. If by some chance you read Joshua and you are still compliant with the loving notion of Biblical God, I suggest you re evaluate your code of ethics.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    Here is the place I will now speak of common rationalizations used for this slaughter.  I have discovered via my discussions that there are two major forms: the corruption argument and the mercy argument.  The former says that those slaughtered were evil and deserving of their fate; the latter says that since they were religiously incorrect, it was a mercy to terminate their existence.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    The corruption argument simply does not hold up.  The people slaughtered in the Old Testament were almost uniformly blameless (with a few exceptions, of course for instance, the Sodomites violated the conventions of hospitality.)  Usually, no justification is offered beyond the fact that since they were of another tribe, it was OK to kill them. It goes with out saying that the hordes of slaughtered children were innocent.  (*Quick tip-If Biblical God was anti abortion he wouldn’t have ordered the murder of pregnant women and young children.)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    As to the mercy argument: If I don’t claim to be suffering, and don’t ask to die, neither you nor any Biblical God has the right to decide that you know better.  (This would of course be a violation of my free will.)  If a person tried to do this to me, I would quite frankly attempt to kill him; if a Biblical God tried, well, the only weapon I would have would be withholding my worship.  Are you beginning to see why I do not comply with the worship of the Christian God?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Neglect:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    Most of us, given omnipotence, would be able to do a far better job than Jehovah.  What would you do if given omnipotence?  If your answer is anything other than “abolish world hunger, disease or save the earth”, there’s something more than a little skewed in your perception of mankind.  There is no question that the very balance of life is in peril.  To wish for these things doesn’t take “infinite mercy”, just normal compassion and a bit of common sense.  Biblical God’s supposed infinite mercy is apparently the same thing as no mercy at all.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    What makes this particularly unforgivable is that even Jesus’ own standards demand feeding of the poor.  See Matthew 25:35, in which it is stated that the blessed feed the hungry, and that the damned do not.  I find it funny that Biblical God is held blameless, though, for not feeding them.  Does not the old saying “practice what you preach” apply to Biblical God?  Is his lack of action a hypocrisy or a sin?  Could it perhaps be both?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    Usually, when I bring this up in a discussion, someone says, “No.  It is the evil of men that is to blame; they have lots of money and keep it to themselves rather than feeding the poor.”  (Funny thing that the Christians who say this are usually conservative.)  This argument uses a double standard.  Men are held guilty for not feeding the poor, while Biblical God is held innocent for doing exactly the same.  In fact, it would be far easier for Biblical God to feed all the poor with his omnipotence, than for any mortal man to feed even one! Mankind is certainly not blameless here, but it is Jehovah who is the true villain.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    Another popular rationalization is that life without “challenges” would be boring and dehumanizing, so Biblical God does not remove them.  The fallacy here is grouping all challenges together.  I personally lead a very challenging and satisfying life, but I have not lately had to flee any volcanoes or earthquakes, go without food for a week, or suffer the ravages of some disease.  I would be quite happy, in fact, if I never do have to face such challenges as those. There is plenty of room for amelioration of the human condition without making it dull.     Does it not defeat the purpose of living life if you are to starve to death?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Faith Is Required To Know Biblical God:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    Suppose you were an omnipotent God, and you demand worship, such as the Christian God.  Would you give proof of your existence to those who wished to follow you?  I imagine for Jehovah that it would be quite simple to perform a continual sequence of verifiable miracles.  It would be quite logical in practice too, for it would keep God’s followers from delusion and doubt.  There is no such luck with Jehovah though.  He demands absolute fidelity without any demonstration of his existence. The only so called record of his existence is the bible.  I think it pretty much goes with out saying that not only is the bible 2,000 years out dated, but it is also very unoriginal.  Any Christian who proposes that the bible is indeed evidence for Biblical God’s existence is proposing a double standard.  For there are many books which claim to be actual accounts of a higher power. With this in mind, why not believe in Allah from the Koran? Could it be because your faith is what determines your belief and not your so called “factual” book?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    Let’s examine what faith is.  The definition of faith is hope for a circumstance or thing that is not proven to be true. There is no virtue in accepting something on faith, since it may very well be false, and it is clearly not virtuous to believe the false.  Faith has also been proven through out history, time and again, that it is equivalent to massive hysteria; IE: Crusades, Burning Times, Inquisitions, Holy Wars, etc. On a grand scale faith, thus far, has only proven to be an intellectual weakness, and a significant barrier to scientific and moral progress. With all of this in mind, how can Biblical God possibly expect us to view faith as the greatest way to glorify him, let alone demand this of us?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    Most importantly, the point to remember here is that if we don’t believe in him, we go to Hell, and this is a greater evil than a lack of the “virtue” of faith or a stunting of science, or anything else conceivable. If Biblical God is truly concerned about the good, he will do what he can to keep us from Hell, and withholding vital information from us is the exact opposite of this.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Biblical God Is The Creator Of Evil:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    I am frustrated at two specific verses in the bible, which applies to this particular topic.  The first is the statement that
“Biblical God is the Alpha and the Omega”.  Loosely defined it means the beginning and the end, the all knowing.  Which of course implies that all of his actions and the results are fore known to him.  I have a real problem with this notion.  For if God was to know ahead of time that someday he would send me to hell for being a non-Christian, I ask what was the purpose in him creating me in the first place?  Was it simply to watch me be tortured?  That seems to be the most logical explanation.  I can think of no other rational explanation, nor neither has any Christian who I posed this question to.  Some people have attempted to tell me that Biblical God has a purpose unknown to us, and that we must simply accept his will.  Would you keep a friend who commits evil and offers no self-justification or remorse?  Of course not, so why is this same judgment not applied to God?  It’s seems rather contradictory that this trait is despised in humanity, yet, it is worshiped in religion.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    Secondly, I want to reinforce the fact that God is indeed the creator of evil.  Please read verse Isaiah 45:7.  “I form the light and create darkness.  I make peace and create evil.  I the lord do all these things”.  The Christian God outright claims that he is indeed the source of evil.  So how can he then claim to be sinless?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    To be more specific, let’s talk about the lord’s creation of evil, let’s talk about the conception of Satan.  This being was created and unleashed by Biblical God.  Jehovah knew (for he is the all knowing) that at the time of Lucifer’s creation he would eventually become Satan, and spend his existence reeking havoc on man kind.  Leading people into criminal activities.  Suppose I were to build an evil robot, that I knew would go around torturing and murdering people.  Whose fault would it be if I let it loose?  Mine or the robot’s?  Of course it would be mine, for I created it with that purpose and unleashed it for that purpose.  Now I ask you, whose fault is deviltry in the world?  Is it the PUPPET Satan or the being that deliberately created Satan’s evil?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    Now Biblical God Plays Switch-A-Roo And Humans Are The Creators Of Evil Not only does the bible imply, but so do many Christians, that we as a people are the creator of evil.  It is clear for reading the bible that this is untrue, but the speculation still remains.  Supposedly, when Adam and Eve fell from grace, they single handedly brought evil into the world.  All you have to do is think logically for a moment, and you will obviously see something is very unjust with this concept.  Could any rational being hold a starving infant in Ethiopia responsible for the actions of two long dead people?  Or perhaps, would you find it fair to be convicted of Jack the Ripper’s crimes?  The connection in both of these instances are not only ludicrous but, disgusting to nod your head at.  People who use this argument are simply attempting to rationalize sadism.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    I must declare that a Christian that walks into a children’s ward and insists that it is correct that children suffer as a result of the original sin, must destroy themselves of all compassion and mercy.  I insist that those who worship the lord knowing this hypocrisy must be as cruel as the Christian Biblical God he/she believes in.  A complete and utter moral degenerate, taking stabs at protecting their belief system.  A person as such would just as easily worship Satan as Biblical God in their blindness and faith.  For apparently, no amount of evidence could convince him that Biblical God was bad once they decided to worship him; their basic assumption is that they are correct, which makes them untouchable by any amount of rationality.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Human Judgment&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    One of the criticisms most frequently leveled at me when presenting any of the above arguments has been that I have no right to judge Biblical God.  A pretty feeble grasp at the straws.  Christians proclaim that Biblical God is the definition of good.  All morality proceeds downwards from him, so it makes no sense to apply moral standards to him.  But I must interject.  Biblical God allowed my ancestors Adam and Eve to eat the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge.  Thus, allowing us “to be like Gods, and know the difference between good and evil”.  This very biblical verse, written in the first book of Genesis, conflicts with the same argument these Christians attempt to use.  If we as humans are now capable of knowing good and evil LIKE THE GODS why can&#039;t we use our judgment?  How can it be lower then God’s if Biblical God is the one who claimed that we are like him?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    Let’s say for the sake of argument that I should not judge Biblical God.  Well then, would it be fair to hold him up to his own standards?  Please consult verses Matthew 25:41-46 We hear Jesus say: “Go away from me with your curse upon you, to the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.  For I was hungry and you never gave me food; I was thirsty and you never gave me anything to drink; I was a stranger and you never made me welcome, naked and you never clothed me, sick and in prison and you never visited me. . . And they will go away to eternal punishment, and the virtuous to eternal life.”&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    Now, I have never personally seen Jesus feed the hungry nor, have I seen him give drink to those who thirst.  But, I do personally see thousands of people die of starvation.  I do not recall Jesus dispensing clothes.  He has never made me feel welcome, let alone acknowledged.  I see the faithful sicken and die on a daily basis.  In light of this Jesus himself is the worst of all sinners; if there is no double standard he will be at the head of the line into eternal punishment.  He is guilty of every crime of which he accuses the damned.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;In Conclusion&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    I don’t think I could ever complete a whole list as to what I find objectio le regarding the bible.  There are many more topics in which to tackle such as sexism, infanticide, homophobia, and the likes.  Frankly, I find it too tiresome to go on any further.  As I read over all that I have wrote I simply wish to close this essay with a very brief summation: I do not believe in the reality of God, except as a psychological phenomenon, but if I did believe I would not worship that horror.  It violates my morality to worship a hypocritical, judgmental, self righteous murderer.  In punishment, it could send me to the hell it’s made for those it dislikes, and if there was no other choice but worshiping it, I would walk in proudly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why I Am Not A Christian:</p>
<p>Introduction:</p>
<p>    This essay was inspired by the consistent assumption of Christians that if I believed the Bible were true, I would become a Christian I do not find the state of the world in accordance with an idea of a loving and merciful higher power.  Then of course there is the factor that the basis of this essay shall be about; I do not find the Biblical God fit for worship.  Over the course of this essay there will be some times when I will speak as if I believe in the Bible, when in fact I do not.</p>
<p>    I plan to examine the Bible with critical inquiry.  This essay will not be based upon scientific facts and how they disprove the Bible.  It shall be an application of my emotions regarding compassion, love, mercy, patience, and justice.  I hope to explain more clearly why the God depicted in the Bible violates my idea of a moral being. This shall be done over a series of topics.  Each pointing out how Jehovah is undeserving of my worship. I will utilize Biblical verses to support my claim as well as what I consider to be logical reasoning.</p>
<p>    Now would be the time to ask you to please take out your bibles for consultation. I do not have the space to write out the verse in its entirety</p>
<p>Hell:</p>
<p>    Hell, of course, is the mother of all of my problems with the bible.  It is perhaps the most despicable and hideous of all of the Christian God’s crimes.  Indeed, the cruelest of all concentration camps.  (Certainly far worse than the ones created by the Nazis.)  Described biblically as the “lake of fire”, “the place of eternal torment with weeping and g hing of teeth” Jesus said in Mark 9:42-48 That it is better to commit suicide or self maiming then to be delivered unto hell. So, according to the bible I assume that all here can agree that there is an existence of hell, and that hell is the worst of all circumstance. Knowing this, let me indulge you as to why the existence of hell paints the Christian Biblical God as not fit for worshiping.</p>
<p>    I am a moderately compassionate individual, rational, moral, and nurturing.  Most of all I am a creator, a mother.  I propose this to you, a human question.  Can all here, Christian or atheist, safely say that if there is a God, he is our greatest thought magnified?  Whatever emotion we feel as human, being created in his image, Biblical God is infinitely more feeling?  For he is the creator of all things created, I believe this concept is pretty safe to assume.  With this being so, my love for my daughter must be a fraction of Biblical God’s love for his children.  Speaking as a mother, I can safely say that if my child were to commit the greatest harm upon me tomorrow, I would never wish her harm.  Why?  Simply because she is my creation.</p>
<p>    If my daughter were to maim me, slander me, etc.  I would still love her, for my instinct and emotion demands of me to protect and care for her regardless of her actions, much like all rational beings (animal kingdom included). So now I pose the question, why then would Biblical God condemn us to hell for something as menial as lack of faith?  If he is not infinitely more so loving then me, why would hell even exist?  Any true loving being would never condemn his own children to everlasting torment, especially one that proclaims himself to having the very essence of forgiveness.</p>
<p>But “Biblical God Is Just” You Claim:</p>
<p>    Most Christians have responded to this statement with the following rationalization.  “Biblical God can not let all of his creations into heaven because he is just.”  I ask in rebuttal to this, since when is justice more important than love in the heart of a parent?  Is hell even justice, or is it simply cruel and unusual punishment?  The bible states the system of justice very simply.  “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.  There is also another variation of that system with the biblical verse “eye for an eye”.  The Christian Biblical God violates his own system of law when he damns his creations to eternal suffering for sins as menial as theft or blasphemy.  I hardly think, nor would any logical person, that throwing someone into a g hing jaw would be justly befitting of nearly any crime.  (With the exception of murder, and even so, eternal punishment is pretty excessive.)</p>
<p>    Most courts of law would take custody of your child from you just for an excessive spanking.  We as a people enacted these laws, for we thought them to be logical. Is Biblical God above logic, or what we deem as compassionate behavior?  After all he pitches a majority of his children into a lake of “fire and brimstone.”  How many of us would want a parent such as that?  Anyone of us would immediately sever our ties with such an abusive person. Yet Christians knowingly continue the insanity of giving worship to a Biblical God so cruel!</p>
<p>“Free Will”, You Say?</p>
<p>    It is also written that I was given free will with which to choose if I will go to hell or not.  How can you possibly deem something free when you must fear consequences?  That completely conflicts with the definition of free.  If I were to hold a gun to your head and say “you have free will to not give me your wallet, but if you attempt to defy me I will kill you.”  Does it really feel as if you have a choice in the matter?  Of course not.  Free means to give or receive something with out an expectation of return.  The whole free will concept is self defeating.  Call it Circumstantial Will, for that is what it truly is.</p>
<p>    Despite this, I have still had the displeasure of debating with those Christians who accept hell as a rational and fair wrath of Biblical God.  They defend Jehovah’s creation of hell with the opinion that those who are committed to hell go voluntary, as if it is a consequence rather then a punishment.  That indeed, we as children of God, chose rather to be hell’s inmates then Biblical God’s disciples in heaven.  It’s an interesting idea.  However, you don’t have to hurt anyone to get into Hell.  All it takes, according to Scripture, is knowing about Jesus and not accepting him as Savior.  It doesn’t matter how virtuous you are, how much good you do, how happy an environment you create for others. Given this, the voluntary entry argument doesn’t make sense.  The same argument could be used to justify the sending of Aryan opponents of Nazism to concentration camps: they voluntarily chose not to give homage to Hitler, so they chose to be interred. Why should we blame the Nazis for the inmates’ choice?  Why should we blame Biblical God for the choice of the damned?</p>
<p>Genocide:</p>
<p>    I hear a lot from Christians about Biblical God’s “infinite compassion and mercy”.</p>
<p>    Instead of harping on me about something so unapparent, they should go tell it to the Midianites. (Please open your Bibles to Numbers 31)  The following verses are a classic example of wholesale slaughter and rape under the direction of the same Biblical God they claim to be so merciful.  A quick sample of this tale: On the way to the promised land, Biblical God had Moses wage a war campaign against the Midian.  Moses was told to put every Midianite to death, plunder anything of value, set fire to their towns where they lived and all their encampments.  Moses gave the orders to his troops (the sons of Israel) and went on a further campaign.  On the return of his troops Moses was enraged with the commanders of the army.  He said, “Why have you spared the life of all the women and children?  You are to kill all the children and kill all the women who have slept with a man. The lord says spare the lives only of the young girls who have not slept with a man, and take them for yourselves, so that we may multiply into a great nation.”  Yes, friends, this is biblical infinite mercy and compassion for you. I particularly like the way that Moses got upset with them for sparing women and male children, but allowed the young girls to be kept for later raping.<br />< br/>    I have had some Christians proclaim that these Midianite girls were not taken for raping but marriage.  How ridiculous!  If you continue further in the scripture you will find that marriage to a Midianite was a crime against God.  A man named Zimri, broke the law and married a Midianite woman this angered God so he sent a plague among the Hebrews.  Fortunately, a zealous son of Israel speared Zimri right through the genitals, and the plague went away.  So now I ask you, if you could not marry a Midianite, just what were these “virgin woman who were to help multiply” good for?</p>
<p>    I don’t think the first born in Egypt during the captivity would have agreed with the verdict of compassion and mercy either.  (Exodus 11:5 &#038; 12:29)  First of all, Jehovah is the one who purposely hardened the heart of the Pharaoh so that he would not let Moses and the Jews go.  Biblical God messed with someone’s free will.  Biblical God could have even teleported the Jews out of captivity without bloodshed, or put the Egyptians to sleep while they left, but no.  Biblical God decided to set up a situation in which he knew he would have to punish the Pharaoh.  Though this he didn’t even do.  He punished the children instead.  Judging from Biblical God’s previous actions, killing innocent children is much more his forte.</p>
<p>    Lastly, please attempt to read the entire book of Joshua some evening. It is a long sequence of atrocities. I have not given all these quotes for space reasons. I urge you to look them up for yourself. Especially for Christians who are not familiar with the bible. It will leave you not only shocked and in question of just what you are worshiping, but it will give a new definition to all morality you claimed was a derivative of Biblical God. If by some chance you read Joshua and you are still compliant with the loving notion of Biblical God, I suggest you re evaluate your code of ethics.</p>
<p>    Here is the place I will now speak of common rationalizations used for this slaughter.  I have discovered via my discussions that there are two major forms: the corruption argument and the mercy argument.  The former says that those slaughtered were evil and deserving of their fate; the latter says that since they were religiously incorrect, it was a mercy to terminate their existence.</p>
<p>    The corruption argument simply does not hold up.  The people slaughtered in the Old Testament were almost uniformly blameless (with a few exceptions, of course for instance, the Sodomites violated the conventions of hospitality.)  Usually, no justification is offered beyond the fact that since they were of another tribe, it was OK to kill them. It goes with out saying that the hordes of slaughtered children were innocent.  (*Quick tip-If Biblical God was anti abortion he wouldn’t have ordered the murder of pregnant women and young children.)</p>
<p>    As to the mercy argument: If I don’t claim to be suffering, and don’t ask to die, neither you nor any Biblical God has the right to decide that you know better.  (This would of course be a violation of my free will.)  If a person tried to do this to me, I would quite frankly attempt to kill him; if a Biblical God tried, well, the only weapon I would have would be withholding my worship.  Are you beginning to see why I do not comply with the worship of the Christian God?</p>
<p>Neglect:</p>
<p>    Most of us, given omnipotence, would be able to do a far better job than Jehovah.  What would you do if given omnipotence?  If your answer is anything other than “abolish world hunger, disease or save the earth”, there’s something more than a little skewed in your perception of mankind.  There is no question that the very balance of life is in peril.  To wish for these things doesn’t take “infinite mercy”, just normal compassion and a bit of common sense.  Biblical God’s supposed infinite mercy is apparently the same thing as no mercy at all.</p>
<p>    What makes this particularly unforgivable is that even Jesus’ own standards demand feeding of the poor.  See Matthew 25:35, in which it is stated that the blessed feed the hungry, and that the damned do not.  I find it funny that Biblical God is held blameless, though, for not feeding them.  Does not the old saying “practice what you preach” apply to Biblical God?  Is his lack of action a hypocrisy or a sin?  Could it perhaps be both?</p>
<p>    Usually, when I bring this up in a discussion, someone says, “No.  It is the evil of men that is to blame; they have lots of money and keep it to themselves rather than feeding the poor.”  (Funny thing that the Christians who say this are usually conservative.)  This argument uses a double standard.  Men are held guilty for not feeding the poor, while Biblical God is held innocent for doing exactly the same.  In fact, it would be far easier for Biblical God to feed all the poor with his omnipotence, than for any mortal man to feed even one! Mankind is certainly not blameless here, but it is Jehovah who is the true villain.</p>
<p>    Another popular rationalization is that life without “challenges” would be boring and dehumanizing, so Biblical God does not remove them.  The fallacy here is grouping all challenges together.  I personally lead a very challenging and satisfying life, but I have not lately had to flee any volcanoes or earthquakes, go without food for a week, or suffer the ravages of some disease.  I would be quite happy, in fact, if I never do have to face such challenges as those. There is plenty of room for amelioration of the human condition without making it dull.     Does it not defeat the purpose of living life if you are to starve to death?</p>
<p>Faith Is Required To Know Biblical God:</p>
<p>    Suppose you were an omnipotent God, and you demand worship, such as the Christian God.  Would you give proof of your existence to those who wished to follow you?  I imagine for Jehovah that it would be quite simple to perform a continual sequence of verifiable miracles.  It would be quite logical in practice too, for it would keep God’s followers from delusion and doubt.  There is no such luck with Jehovah though.  He demands absolute fidelity without any demonstration of his existence. The only so called record of his existence is the bible.  I think it pretty much goes with out saying that not only is the bible 2,000 years out dated, but it is also very unoriginal.  Any Christian who proposes that the bible is indeed evidence for Biblical God’s existence is proposing a double standard.  For there are many books which claim to be actual accounts of a higher power. With this in mind, why not believe in Allah from the Koran? Could it be because your faith is what determines your belief and not your so called “factual” book?</p>
<p>    Let’s examine what faith is.  The definition of faith is hope for a circumstance or thing that is not proven to be true. There is no virtue in accepting something on faith, since it may very well be false, and it is clearly not virtuous to believe the false.  Faith has also been proven through out history, time and again, that it is equivalent to massive hysteria; IE: Crusades, Burning Times, Inquisitions, Holy Wars, etc. On a grand scale faith, thus far, has only proven to be an intellectual weakness, and a significant barrier to scientific and moral progress. With all of this in mind, how can Biblical God possibly expect us to view faith as the greatest way to glorify him, let alone demand this of us?</p>
<p>    Most importantly, the point to remember here is that if we don’t believe in him, we go to Hell, and this is a greater evil than a lack of the “virtue” of faith or a stunting of science, or anything else conceivable. If Biblical God is truly concerned about the good, he will do what he can to keep us from Hell, and withholding vital information from us is the exact opposite of this.</p>
<p>Biblical God Is The Creator Of Evil:</p>
<p>    I am frustrated at two specific verses in the bible, which applies to this particular topic.  The first is the statement that<br />
“Biblical God is the Alpha and the Omega”.  Loosely defined it means the beginning and the end, the all knowing.  Which of course implies that all of his actions and the results are fore known to him.  I have a real problem with this notion.  For if God was to know ahead of time that someday he would send me to hell for being a non-Christian, I ask what was the purpose in him creating me in the first place?  Was it simply to watch me be tortured?  That seems to be the most logical explanation.  I can think of no other rational explanation, nor neither has any Christian who I posed this question to.  Some people have attempted to tell me that Biblical God has a purpose unknown to us, and that we must simply accept his will.  Would you keep a friend who commits evil and offers no self-justification or remorse?  Of course not, so why is this same judgment not applied to God?  It’s seems rather contradictory that this trait is despised in humanity, yet, it is worshiped in religion.</p>
<p>    Secondly, I want to reinforce the fact that God is indeed the creator of evil.  Please read verse Isaiah 45:7.  “I form the light and create darkness.  I make peace and create evil.  I the lord do all these things”.  The Christian God outright claims that he is indeed the source of evil.  So how can he then claim to be sinless?</p>
<p>    To be more specific, let’s talk about the lord’s creation of evil, let’s talk about the conception of Satan.  This being was created and unleashed by Biblical God.  Jehovah knew (for he is the all knowing) that at the time of Lucifer’s creation he would eventually become Satan, and spend his existence reeking havoc on man kind.  Leading people into criminal activities.  Suppose I were to build an evil robot, that I knew would go around torturing and murdering people.  Whose fault would it be if I let it loose?  Mine or the robot’s?  Of course it would be mine, for I created it with that purpose and unleashed it for that purpose.  Now I ask you, whose fault is deviltry in the world?  Is it the PUPPET Satan or the being that deliberately created Satan’s evil?</p>
<p>    Now Biblical God Plays Switch-A-Roo And Humans Are The Creators Of Evil Not only does the bible imply, but so do many Christians, that we as a people are the creator of evil.  It is clear for reading the bible that this is untrue, but the speculation still remains.  Supposedly, when Adam and Eve fell from grace, they single handedly brought evil into the world.  All you have to do is think logically for a moment, and you will obviously see something is very unjust with this concept.  Could any rational being hold a starving infant in Ethiopia responsible for the actions of two long dead people?  Or perhaps, would you find it fair to be convicted of Jack the Ripper’s crimes?  The connection in both of these instances are not only ludicrous but, disgusting to nod your head at.  People who use this argument are simply attempting to rationalize sadism.</p>
<p>    I must declare that a Christian that walks into a children’s ward and insists that it is correct that children suffer as a result of the original sin, must destroy themselves of all compassion and mercy.  I insist that those who worship the lord knowing this hypocrisy must be as cruel as the Christian Biblical God he/she believes in.  A complete and utter moral degenerate, taking stabs at protecting their belief system.  A person as such would just as easily worship Satan as Biblical God in their blindness and faith.  For apparently, no amount of evidence could convince him that Biblical God was bad once they decided to worship him; their basic assumption is that they are correct, which makes them untouchable by any amount of rationality.</p>
<p>Human Judgment</p>
<p>    One of the criticisms most frequently leveled at me when presenting any of the above arguments has been that I have no right to judge Biblical God.  A pretty feeble grasp at the straws.  Christians proclaim that Biblical God is the definition of good.  All morality proceeds downwards from him, so it makes no sense to apply moral standards to him.  But I must interject.  Biblical God allowed my ancestors Adam and Eve to eat the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge.  Thus, allowing us “to be like Gods, and know the difference between good and evil”.  This very biblical verse, written in the first book of Genesis, conflicts with the same argument these Christians attempt to use.  If we as humans are now capable of knowing good and evil LIKE THE GODS why can&#8217;t we use our judgment?  How can it be lower then God’s if Biblical God is the one who claimed that we are like him?</p>
<p>    Let’s say for the sake of argument that I should not judge Biblical God.  Well then, would it be fair to hold him up to his own standards?  Please consult verses Matthew 25:41-46 We hear Jesus say: “Go away from me with your curse upon you, to the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.  For I was hungry and you never gave me food; I was thirsty and you never gave me anything to drink; I was a stranger and you never made me welcome, naked and you never clothed me, sick and in prison and you never visited me. . . And they will go away to eternal punishment, and the virtuous to eternal life.”</p>
<p>    Now, I have never personally seen Jesus feed the hungry nor, have I seen him give drink to those who thirst.  But, I do personally see thousands of people die of starvation.  I do not recall Jesus dispensing clothes.  He has never made me feel welcome, let alone acknowledged.  I see the faithful sicken and die on a daily basis.  In light of this Jesus himself is the worst of all sinners; if there is no double standard he will be at the head of the line into eternal punishment.  He is guilty of every crime of which he accuses the damned.</p>
<p>In Conclusion</p>
<p>    I don’t think I could ever complete a whole list as to what I find objectio le regarding the bible.  There are many more topics in which to tackle such as sexism, infanticide, homophobia, and the likes.  Frankly, I find it too tiresome to go on any further.  As I read over all that I have wrote I simply wish to close this essay with a very brief summation: I do not believe in the reality of God, except as a psychological phenomenon, but if I did believe I would not worship that horror.  It violates my morality to worship a hypocritical, judgmental, self righteous murderer.  In punishment, it could send me to the hell it’s made for those it dislikes, and if there was no other choice but worshiping it, I would walk in proudly.</p>
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		<title>By: Hreemkaari</title>
		<link>http://www.dilipmuralidaran.com/2007/08/rebuttal-2.html/comment-page-1#comment-127</link>
		<dc:creator>Hreemkaari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2008 13:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dilipmuralidaran.wordpress.com/2007/08/01/rebuttal-2/#comment-127</guid>
		<description>Ignorance is bliss.  Christians should not practice free inquiry nor socialize with non Christians:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Don’t associate with non-Christians.  Don’t receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them.  2 John 1:10&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Shun those who disagree with your religious views.  Romans 16:17&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Paul, knowing that their faith would crumble if subjected to free and critical inquiry, tells his followers to avoid philosophy. Colossians 2:8</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ignorance is bliss.  Christians should not practice free inquiry nor socialize with non Christians:</p>
<p>Don’t associate with non-Christians.  Don’t receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them.  2 John 1:10</p>
<p>Shun those who disagree with your religious views.  Romans 16:17</p>
<p>Paul, knowing that their faith would crumble if subjected to free and critical inquiry, tells his followers to avoid philosophy. Colossians 2:8</p>
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		<title>By: Hreemkaari</title>
		<link>http://www.dilipmuralidaran.com/2007/08/rebuttal-2.html/comment-page-1#comment-126</link>
		<dc:creator>Hreemkaari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2008 13:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dilipmuralidaran.wordpress.com/2007/08/01/rebuttal-2/#comment-126</guid>
		<description>nfidels and Gays Should Die&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired.  As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other&#039;s bodies.  Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies.  So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever.  Amen.  That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires.  Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other.  And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other.  Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved.  When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done.  Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip.  They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful.  They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents.  They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving.  They are fully aware of God&#039;s death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway.  And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too.  (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    For the LORD had said to Moses, &#039;Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites.  You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment.  They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it.  Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again.  Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.&#039;  (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; Kill People for Working on the Sabbath&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: &#039;Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever.  It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy.  Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy.  Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community.  Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest.  I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.&#039;  (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;2) Biblical God&#039;s Murders for Stupid Reasons:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Kill Brats&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    From there Elisha went up to Bethel.  While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him.  &quot;Go up baldhead,&quot; they shouted, &quot;go up baldhead!&quot;  The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord.  Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces.  (2 Kings 2:23-24)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; Biblical God Kills the Curious &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and&#039; fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter.  And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us?   (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; Killed by a Lion&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, &quot;Strike me!&quot;  But the man refused to strike the prophet.  Then the prophet told him, &quot;Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me.&quot;  And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him.  (1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; Killing the Good Samaritan&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    The ark of God was placed on a new cart and taken away from the house of Abinadab on the hill.  Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab guided the cart, with Ahio walking before it, while David and all the Israelites made merry before the Lord with all their strength, with singing and with citharas, harps, tambourines, sistrums, and cymbals.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    When they came to the threshing floor of Nodan, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God to steady it, for the oxen were making it tip.  But the Lord was angry with Uzzah; God struck him on that spot, and he died there before God.  (2 Samuel 6:3-7)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;3) Murdering Children&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Kill Sons of Sinners&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants.  (Isaiah 14:21)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; Biblical God Will Kill Children&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived.  Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you.  It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone.  I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre.  But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered.&quot;  O LORD, what should I request for your people?  I will ask for wombs that don&#039;t give birth and breasts that give no milk.  The LORD says, &quot;All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them.  I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions.  I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels.  The people of Israel are stricken.  Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit.  And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children.&quot;  (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; Kill Men, Women, and Children&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    &quot;Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, &quot;Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked.  Show no mercy; have no pity!  Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children.  But do not touch anyone with the mark.  Begin your task right here at the Temple.&quot;  So they began by killing the seventy leaders.  &quot;Defile the Temple!&quot; the LORD commanded.  &quot;Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill!  Go!&quot;  So they went throughout the city and did as they were told.&quot;  (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; Biblical God Kills all the First Born of Egypt&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed.  Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died.  (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; Kill Old Men and Young Women&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    &quot;You are my battle-ax and sword,&quot; says the LORD.  &quot;With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms.  With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer.  With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens.  With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers.  &quot;As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem,&quot; says the LORD.  &quot;Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth!  I am your enemy,&quot; says the LORD.  &quot;I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights.  When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble.  You will be desolate forever.  Even your stones will never again be used for building.  You will be completely wiped out,&quot; says the LORD.  (Jeremiah 51:20-26)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;     (Note that after Biblical God promises the Israelites a victory against Babylon, the Israelites actually get their butts kicked by them in the next chapter.
  So much for an all-knowing and all-powerful Biblical God.)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; Biblical God Will Kill the Children of Sinners&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins.  I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted.  (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; More Rape and Baby Killing&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword.  Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes.  Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes.  For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off.  The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows.  They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children.  (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nfidels and Gays Should Die</p>
<p>    So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired.  As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other&#8217;s bodies.  Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies.  So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever.  Amen.  That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires.  Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other.  And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other.  Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved.  When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done.  Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip.  They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful.  They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents.  They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving.  They are fully aware of God&#8217;s death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway.  And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too.  (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)</p>
<p> Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle</p>
<p>    For the LORD had said to Moses, &#8216;Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites.  You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment.  They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it.  Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again.  Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.&#8217;  (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)</p>
<p> Kill People for Working on the Sabbath</p>
<p>    The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: &#8216;Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever.  It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy.  Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy.  Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community.  Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest.  I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.&#8217;  (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)</p>
<p>2) Biblical God&#8217;s Murders for Stupid Reasons:</p>
<p>Kill Brats</p>
<p>    From there Elisha went up to Bethel.  While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him.  &#8220;Go up baldhead,&#8221; they shouted, &#8220;go up baldhead!&#8221;  The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord.  Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces.  (2 Kings 2:23-24)</p>
<p> Biblical God Kills the Curious </p>
<p>    And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and&#8217; fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter.  And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us?   (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)</p>
<p> Killed by a Lion</p>
<p>    Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, &#8220;Strike me!&#8221;  But the man refused to strike the prophet.  Then the prophet told him, &#8220;Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me.&#8221;  And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him.  (1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT)</p>
<p> Killing the Good Samaritan</p>
<p>    The ark of God was placed on a new cart and taken away from the house of Abinadab on the hill.  Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab guided the cart, with Ahio walking before it, while David and all the Israelites made merry before the Lord with all their strength, with singing and with citharas, harps, tambourines, sistrums, and cymbals.</p>
<p>    When they came to the threshing floor of Nodan, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God to steady it, for the oxen were making it tip.  But the Lord was angry with Uzzah; God struck him on that spot, and he died there before God.  (2 Samuel 6:3-7)</p>
<p>3) Murdering Children</p>
<p>Kill Sons of Sinners</p>
<p>    Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants.  (Isaiah 14:21)</p>
<p> Biblical God Will Kill Children</p>
<p>    The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived.  Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you.  It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone.  I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre.  But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered.&#8221;  O LORD, what should I request for your people?  I will ask for wombs that don&#8217;t give birth and breasts that give no milk.  The LORD says, &#8220;All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them.  I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions.  I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels.  The people of Israel are stricken.  Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit.  And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children.&#8221;  (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)</p>
<p> Kill Men, Women, and Children</p>
<p>    &#8220;Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, &#8220;Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked.  Show no mercy; have no pity!  Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children.  But do not touch anyone with the mark.  Begin your task right here at the Temple.&#8221;  So they began by killing the seventy leaders.  &#8220;Defile the Temple!&#8221; the LORD commanded.  &#8220;Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill!  Go!&#8221;  So they went throughout the city and did as they were told.&#8221;  (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)</p>
<p> Biblical God Kills all the First Born of Egypt</p>
<p>    And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed.  Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died.  (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)</p>
<p> Kill Old Men and Young Women</p>
<p>    &#8220;You are my battle-ax and sword,&#8221; says the LORD.  &#8220;With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms.  With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer.  With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens.  With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers.  &#8220;As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem,&#8221; says the LORD.  &#8220;Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth!  I am your enemy,&#8221; says the LORD.  &#8220;I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights.  When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble.  You will be desolate forever.  Even your stones will never again be used for building.  You will be completely wiped out,&#8221; says the LORD.  (Jeremiah 51:20-26)</p>
<p>     (Note that after Biblical God promises the Israelites a victory against Babylon, the Israelites actually get their butts kicked by them in the next chapter.<br />
  So much for an all-knowing and all-powerful Biblical God.)</p>
<p> Biblical God Will Kill the Children of Sinners</p>
<p>    If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins.  I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted.  (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)</p>
<p> More Rape and Baby Killing</p>
<p>    Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword.  Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes.  Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes.  For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off.  The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows.  They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children.  (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)</p>
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		<title>By: Hreemkaari</title>
		<link>http://www.dilipmuralidaran.com/2007/08/rebuttal-2.html/comment-page-1#comment-125</link>
		<dc:creator>Hreemkaari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2008 13:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dilipmuralidaran.wordpress.com/2007/08/01/rebuttal-2/#comment-125</guid>
		<description>Read full at:&lt;br/&gt;http://evilbiblequran.googlepages.com/evilbible.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Read full at:<br /><a href="http://evilbiblequran.googlepages.com/evilbible.htm" rel="nofollow">http://evilbiblequran.googlepages.com/evilbible.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Hreemkaari</title>
		<link>http://www.dilipmuralidaran.com/2007/08/rebuttal-2.html/comment-page-1#comment-124</link>
		<dc:creator>Hreemkaari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2008 13:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dilipmuralidaran.wordpress.com/2007/08/01/rebuttal-2/#comment-124</guid>
		<description>The Bible is fit for worship?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Dear Christian:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I do not accept the Bible as Biblical God’s word because it contains thousand of errors and contradictions that can not be solved, only rationalized.  I refuse to accept Jesus as my personal savior, for his behavior and teachings often expose one who should be escaped and not worshipped.  I ask that you read this pamphlet in light of the bible’s teachings; Christians should be “open to reason” (James 3:17), that we should “reason together” (Isaiah 1:18) and “he who hates correction will die” (Proverbs 15:10) to understand my perspective that the bible has MANY shortcomings.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;1.  According to your Bible I am to believe that human kind is sinful for Adam and Eve ate the fruit of knowledge.  Why are we being punished for the original sin?  After all, they ate the forbidden fruit, we didn’t.  Reason would lead one to say it’s their problem, not ours.  Even the bible contradicts itself by claiming in Deuteronomy 24:16, “children shall not be punished for the sins of their fathers.”&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;2.  We are told that the Bible has no scientific errors and is utterly perfect/protected, yet it says the bat is a bird (Leviticus 11:13 &amp; 19), hares chew the cud (Leviticus 11:5-6), and some fowl (Leviticus 11:20-21) and insects (Leviticus 11:22-23) have four legs.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;3.  Heaven is supposed to be a perfect place.  It is of course, the place you strive for and name “salvation”.  Yet, Biblical heaven experienced a war (Revelation 12:7).&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; How can there be a war in a perfect place and if it happened before why couldn’t it happen again?  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Why would I want to go to a place in which war can occur? &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;That’s exactly what I’m trying to escape, aren’t you?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;4.  We are told salvation is obtained by faith alone (John 3:18 &amp; 36) and then the Bible claims that it is repentance that shall save us (2 Peter 3:9) yet Jesus told a man to follow the Commandments-Matthew 19:16-1 8 (saving by works)-if he wanted eternal life. So which way is it and how do you know your belief is the correct one?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;5. According to the text there are 29 cities listed in Joshua 15:21-32.  One need only count them to see that biblical math is not to be trusted.  The total is 36.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;6. Surely you don’t believe Ecclesiastes 1:9 (“What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done; there is nothing new under the sun”)?  How many cities had an atomic bomb dropped on them prior to 1945, and how many people walked on the moon before 1969?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;7.  If the Bible is our moral guide, then how can it make pornographic statements such as: “...they may eat their own dung and drink their own piss with you” (2 Kings 18:27)? &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Also consult Numbers 31 where a whole tribe of people, including the elderly and children are slaughtered.  The only survivors were the virginal women, who were later raped by the “just and perfect” Moses and his men.  Is that what you want your children reading on Sunday?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;8.  If Biblical God created everything, (Colossians 1:16, Ephesians 3:9, Revelation 4:11 &amp; John 1:3), then he did create the world’s evil (Isaiah 45:7, Lamentations 3:38). Thus, he is responsible.  Any being who could create situations such as rape, death, malnutrition, disease, molestation and murder is certainly not fit for worship.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;9.  For justice to exist, punishment must fit the crime.  No matter how many bad deeds one commits in this world, there is a limit.  Yet, hell’s punishment is infinitely greater.  It’s eternal.  Shouldn’t a sinner suffer until remorse is felt and the crime is atoned for?  What “justice” is there in infinite damnation?&lt;br/&gt;10.  Jesus said, “Whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire” (Matthew 5:22).&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; Yet, he himself did so repeatedly, as Matthew 27:19, Luke 11:40 &amp; 12:20 show.  Shouldn’t he be in danger of hell too?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Jesus also told us to “Love your enemies; bless them that curse you,&quot; but ignored his own advice by repeatedly denouncing his opposition.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Matthew 12:34 (“0 generation of vipers”), and Matthew 23 :27 (“... hypocrites... ye are like unto whited sepulchres.“) are excellent examples of hypocrisy.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;If Jesus himself is a sinner by his own admission then surely he can not be the “perfect lamb of God”.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;11.  Except those of biased Christian writers, there isn’t one writing outside the Bible in all of ancient history that clearly refers to Jesus of Nazareth.  The decision to dedicate my life to a deity requires at least one shred of conclusive evidence.  Your lord knows non Christians exist as a result of this, yet he makes no attempt to supply proof.  How can the bible claim God wants all in heaven if he doesn’t make efforts to ensure that we all believe in him?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;12.  Paul says Christianity lives or dies on the Resurrection ( Corinthians 15:14-17).  Yet Jesus made many promises concerning his return during the lifetime of his then followers.  (Matthew 16:28: “There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom”.  Matthew 23:36, 24:34, Mark.9:1, 13:30, Luke 9:27, 21:32 &amp; John 21:22) None of these prophecies have come true.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Does this not make Jesus a false prophet?  If so wouldn’t that make Christianity invalid?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;13.  I find the idea that a man had to die for my sins revolting. If Biblical God was truly omnipotent he could have simply forgiven us.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;What kind of deity, would execute one child in order to forgive it’s others? &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Modern society would call an individual like this sadistic, insane and cruel.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Surely, you would not worship a child killer, why do you expect me to?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Would you find a judge worthy of the title who would allow my child to be executed in lieu of my sins?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;14.  John 14:12 states a follower in Jesus can perform any of his works and do it even greater.  If you continue to insist I believe in Jesus, it is only fair I may ask of you to show just how strong your faith is. After all, you would be my “mentor” in Christ.  I’m not a Christian as of yet, but surely you are.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Would you mind perhaps resurrecting a dead relative or walking on water?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;15.  Okay, obviously you didn’t do number 14 and backed out with the “this is metaphorical” excuse.  Surely you can try Mark 16:17-1 8 which says Christians can drink “any deadly thing” and “it shall not hurt” them.  But I don’t think you would be naive enough to drink any arsenic offered.  Perhaps I’m wrong and you would be willing to test the Book’s veracity-”lay it on the line” so to speak?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;16. All right, so now you have backed out of two of my questions.  I’m starting to think you don’t really care about my salvation as much as you claim.  Well, unlike your Jehovah, I shall be kind and offer a third chance at redemption.  Consider Jesus’ teaching in Luke 6:30 “Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.”  Perhaps, if you emptied your wallet and “give of thee” I may seriously ponder accepting Jesus as my savior.  A far greater number of Biblical discrepancies can be found on the web at the following addresses:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;http://web2.airmail.net/capella/aguide/main.htm&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;http://www.cygnus-study.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Bible is fit for worship?</p>
<p>Dear Christian:</p>
<p>I do not accept the Bible as Biblical God’s word because it contains thousand of errors and contradictions that can not be solved, only rationalized.  I refuse to accept Jesus as my personal savior, for his behavior and teachings often expose one who should be escaped and not worshipped.  I ask that you read this pamphlet in light of the bible’s teachings; Christians should be “open to reason” (James 3:17), that we should “reason together” (Isaiah 1:18) and “he who hates correction will die” (Proverbs 15:10) to understand my perspective that the bible has MANY shortcomings.</p>
<p>1.  According to your Bible I am to believe that human kind is sinful for Adam and Eve ate the fruit of knowledge.  Why are we being punished for the original sin?  After all, they ate the forbidden fruit, we didn’t.  Reason would lead one to say it’s their problem, not ours.  Even the bible contradicts itself by claiming in Deuteronomy 24:16, “children shall not be punished for the sins of their fathers.”</p>
<p>2.  We are told that the Bible has no scientific errors and is utterly perfect/protected, yet it says the bat is a bird (Leviticus 11:13 &#038; 19), hares chew the cud (Leviticus 11:5-6), and some fowl (Leviticus 11:20-21) and insects (Leviticus 11:22-23) have four legs.</p>
<p>3.  Heaven is supposed to be a perfect place.  It is of course, the place you strive for and name “salvation”.  Yet, Biblical heaven experienced a war (Revelation 12:7).</p>
<p> How can there be a war in a perfect place and if it happened before why couldn’t it happen again?  </p>
<p>Why would I want to go to a place in which war can occur? </p>
<p>That’s exactly what I’m trying to escape, aren’t you?</p>
<p>4.  We are told salvation is obtained by faith alone (John 3:18 &#038; 36) and then the Bible claims that it is repentance that shall save us (2 Peter 3:9) yet Jesus told a man to follow the Commandments-Matthew 19:16-1 8 (saving by works)-if he wanted eternal life. So which way is it and how do you know your belief is the correct one?</p>
<p>5. According to the text there are 29 cities listed in Joshua 15:21-32.  One need only count them to see that biblical math is not to be trusted.  The total is 36.</p>
<p>6. Surely you don’t believe Ecclesiastes 1:9 (“What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done; there is nothing new under the sun”)?  How many cities had an atomic bomb dropped on them prior to 1945, and how many people walked on the moon before 1969?</p>
<p>7.  If the Bible is our moral guide, then how can it make pornographic statements such as: “&#8230;they may eat their own dung and drink their own piss with you” (2 Kings 18:27)? </p>
<p>Also consult Numbers 31 where a whole tribe of people, including the elderly and children are slaughtered.  The only survivors were the virginal women, who were later raped by the “just and perfect” Moses and his men.  Is that what you want your children reading on Sunday?</p>
<p>8.  If Biblical God created everything, (Colossians 1:16, Ephesians 3:9, Revelation 4:11 &#038; John 1:3), then he did create the world’s evil (Isaiah 45:7, Lamentations 3:38). Thus, he is responsible.  Any being who could create situations such as rape, death, malnutrition, disease, molestation and murder is certainly not fit for worship.</p>
<p>9.  For justice to exist, punishment must fit the crime.  No matter how many bad deeds one commits in this world, there is a limit.  Yet, hell’s punishment is infinitely greater.  It’s eternal.  Shouldn’t a sinner suffer until remorse is felt and the crime is atoned for?  What “justice” is there in infinite damnation?<br />10.  Jesus said, “Whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire” (Matthew 5:22).</p>
<p> Yet, he himself did so repeatedly, as Matthew 27:19, Luke 11:40 &#038; 12:20 show.  Shouldn’t he be in danger of hell too?</p>
<p>Jesus also told us to “Love your enemies; bless them that curse you,&#8221; but ignored his own advice by repeatedly denouncing his opposition.</p>
<p>Matthew 12:34 (“0 generation of vipers”), and Matthew 23 :27 (“&#8230; hypocrites&#8230; ye are like unto whited sepulchres.“) are excellent examples of hypocrisy.  </p>
<p>If Jesus himself is a sinner by his own admission then surely he can not be the “perfect lamb of God”.</p>
<p>11.  Except those of biased Christian writers, there isn’t one writing outside the Bible in all of ancient history that clearly refers to Jesus of Nazareth.  The decision to dedicate my life to a deity requires at least one shred of conclusive evidence.  Your lord knows non Christians exist as a result of this, yet he makes no attempt to supply proof.  How can the bible claim God wants all in heaven if he doesn’t make efforts to ensure that we all believe in him?</p>
<p>12.  Paul says Christianity lives or dies on the Resurrection ( Corinthians 15:14-17).  Yet Jesus made many promises concerning his return during the lifetime of his then followers.  (Matthew 16:28: “There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom”.  Matthew 23:36, 24:34, Mark.9:1, 13:30, Luke 9:27, 21:32 &#038; John 21:22) None of these prophecies have come true.</p>
<p>Does this not make Jesus a false prophet?  If so wouldn’t that make Christianity invalid?</p>
<p>13.  I find the idea that a man had to die for my sins revolting. If Biblical God was truly omnipotent he could have simply forgiven us.</p>
<p>What kind of deity, would execute one child in order to forgive it’s others? </p>
<p>Modern society would call an individual like this sadistic, insane and cruel.</p>
<p>Surely, you would not worship a child killer, why do you expect me to?</p>
<p>Would you find a judge worthy of the title who would allow my child to be executed in lieu of my sins?</p>
<p>14.  John 14:12 states a follower in Jesus can perform any of his works and do it even greater.  If you continue to insist I believe in Jesus, it is only fair I may ask of you to show just how strong your faith is. After all, you would be my “mentor” in Christ.  I’m not a Christian as of yet, but surely you are.</p>
<p>Would you mind perhaps resurrecting a dead relative or walking on water?</p>
<p>15.  Okay, obviously you didn’t do number 14 and backed out with the “this is metaphorical” excuse.  Surely you can try Mark 16:17-1 8 which says Christians can drink “any deadly thing” and “it shall not hurt” them.  But I don’t think you would be naive enough to drink any arsenic offered.  Perhaps I’m wrong and you would be willing to test the Book’s veracity-”lay it on the line” so to speak?</p>
<p>16. All right, so now you have backed out of two of my questions.  I’m starting to think you don’t really care about my salvation as much as you claim.  Well, unlike your Jehovah, I shall be kind and offer a third chance at redemption.  Consider Jesus’ teaching in Luke 6:30 “Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.”  Perhaps, if you emptied your wallet and “give of thee” I may seriously ponder accepting Jesus as my savior.  A far greater number of Biblical discrepancies can be found on the web at the following addresses:</p>
<p><a href="http://web2.airmail.net/capella/aguide/main.htm" rel="nofollow">http://web2.airmail.net/capella/aguide/main.htm</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.cygnus-study.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.cygnus-study.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Hreemkaari</title>
		<link>http://www.dilipmuralidaran.com/2007/08/rebuttal-2.html/comment-page-1#comment-123</link>
		<dc:creator>Hreemkaari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2008 13:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dilipmuralidaran.wordpress.com/2007/08/01/rebuttal-2/#comment-123</guid>
		<description>Jesus Lied&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; Jesus Lied About Prayer&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; Jesus is quoted many times in the Bible saying that a Christian can ask for anything through prayer and receive it.  He even goes so far as to say that mountains and trees can be thrown into the sea simply by praying for it.  This is clearly a lie, and can be proven to be a lie by any Christian.  Simply pray for me to be converted to Christianity today right away.  Or better yet ask Biblical God to move the mountains behind my house.  He could make a lot of converts that way.  If I’m converted today, I’ll post a public apology on my web site and devote my life to Biblical God.  If I’m not converted it would only be fair for you Christians to apologize and devote your life to preach against the liar Jesus.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    Here are the quotes from Jesus that proves that he lied:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    1)  And Jesus answered and said to them, &quot;Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, `Be taken up and cast into the sea,&#039; it will happen.  &quot;And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.&quot;  (Matthew 21:21-22)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    2)  Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.  For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.  (Matthew 7:7-8)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    3)  Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven.  For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.  (Matthew 18:19-20)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    4)  Amen, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, &#039;Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,&#039; and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it shall be done for him.  Therefore I tell you, all that you ask for in prayer, believe that you will receive it and it shall be yours.  (Mark 11:24-25)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    5)  And I tell you, ask and you will receive; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.  For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.  (Luke 11:9-13)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    6)  And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.  If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it.  (John 14:13-14)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    7)  If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you.  (John 15:7)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    8)  It was not you who chose me, but I who chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit that will remain, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name he may give you.  (John 15:16)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    9)  On that day you will not question me about anything.  Amen, amen, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in my name he will give you.  Until now you have not asked anything in my name; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete.  (John 16:23-24)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;    A lot of Christians ignore what Jesus actually says in the Bible.  They also tend to add things to the actual words to make them say something else.  If you honestly and truthfully read these quotes, without adding to them, it is very easy to see that Jesus is not saying that God will think about your prayers.  He says Biblical God will grant all your prayers.  Clearly, God doesn’t grant all prayers and this proves that Jesus was a habitual liar.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The many lies that Jesus told about the second coming of God&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;According to the Bible the “End Times” Should Have ALREADY Occurred! Jesus and his apostles made MANY prophecies concerning the Armageddon.  The Bible is rather clear concerning when it would happen.  Matter of fact, the Bible consistently said it would follow soon after Jesus’ death.  When you point out such verses to Christians they will try to weasel it out of it by saying Christ was talking about his “future” apostles versus the ones he was directly speaking to.  All it takes is a close examinations of the pronouns used in order to see that Christ truly did believe the end times would have happened nearly 2,000 years ago.  Keep in mind that the Bible claims it is “fit for reproof’ and Christianity “lives and dies on the resurrection and end times”. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;If we are to believe these verses and accept that the end time prophecies failed then surely the whole book is invalid.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;Jesus’ False Predictions:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;1) Jesus falsely prophesies DIRECTLY to the high priest (Caiphas) that he would live to see his second coming.  Jesus uses the term “coming on the clouds of heaven”.  This clearly negates the “coming” as the resurrection but as a return to the earth on CLOUDS, not his return in human form from the dead.  Matthew 26:64 &amp; Mark 14:62.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&quot;But I tell you: From now on you will see &#039;the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power&#039; and &#039;coming on the clouds of heaven.&#039;&quot;  (Matthew 26:64)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Then Jesus answered, &quot;I am; and &#039;you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.&#039;&quot;  (Mark 14:62)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;2) Jesus mistakenly tells his followers that he will return and establish his kingdom within their lifetime. Matthew 23:36 &amp; 24:34&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Amen, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.  (Matthew 23:36)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&quot;Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.  And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.  And he will send out his angels with a trumpet blast, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.  &quot;Learn a lesson from the fig tree. When its branch becomes tender and sprouts leaves, you know that summer is near.  In the same way, when you see all these things, know that he is near, at the gates.  Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place.  Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.  (Matthew 24:29-35)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;3) YET AGAIN, Jesus claims those standing RIGHT BEFORE HIM shall see the Armageddon.  Matthew 16:28 “There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;  Don’t let Christians lie to you and claim Jesus was referring to his modern day Christians.  The words “some standing HERE will not taste death” clearly refute such nonsense.  Obviously the people he was speaking to died, and curiously Jesus STILL isn’t here to claim his kingdom.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;4) Jesus falsely prophesies that the end of the world will come within his listeners’ lifetimes. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.  (Mark 13:30-31)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;He also said to them, &quot;Amen, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see that the kingdom of God has come in power.&quot;  (Mark 9:1)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;5) Jesus falsely predicts that some of his listeners would live to see him return and establish the kingdom of God.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&quot;Truly I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God.&quot; (Luke 9:27)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;6) Jesus implies that he will return to earth during the lifetime of John. (John 21:22)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;7) Jesus says that all that he describes (his return, signs in the sun, moon, wars, stars, etc.) will
occur within the lifetime of his listeners.  He purposely defines their generation and NOT a future one.  Considering that NONE of those signs took place during the resurrection and that he uses the term of “Heaven and earth shall pass away”, Clearly Jesus is prophesizing that nearly 2,000 years ago Armageddon SHOULD have occurred.  Luke 21:25-33&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&quot;There will be signs in the sun, the moon, and the stars, and on earth nations will be in dismay, perplexed by the roaring of the sea and the waves.  People will die of fright in anticipation of what is coming upon the world, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.  And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.  But when these signs begin to happen, stand erect and raise your heads because your redemption is at hand.&quot;  He taught them a lesson. &quot;Consider the fig tree and all the other trees.  When their buds burst open, you see for yourselves and know that summer is now near; in the same way, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near.  Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place.  Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.  (Luke 21:25-33)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;[Note:  Matthew 10:23 also has Jesus telling his disciples that the second coming will occur before the disciples finish preaching in Israel:  &quot;When they persecute you in one town, flee to another. Amen, I say to you, you will not finish the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.&quot;  (Matthew 10:23)]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jesus Lied</p>
<p> Jesus Lied About Prayer</p>
<p> Jesus is quoted many times in the Bible saying that a Christian can ask for anything through prayer and receive it.  He even goes so far as to say that mountains and trees can be thrown into the sea simply by praying for it.  This is clearly a lie, and can be proven to be a lie by any Christian.  Simply pray for me to be converted to Christianity today right away.  Or better yet ask Biblical God to move the mountains behind my house.  He could make a lot of converts that way.  If I’m converted today, I’ll post a public apology on my web site and devote my life to Biblical God.  If I’m not converted it would only be fair for you Christians to apologize and devote your life to preach against the liar Jesus.</p>
<p>    Here are the quotes from Jesus that proves that he lied:</p>
<p>    1)  And Jesus answered and said to them, &#8220;Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, `Be taken up and cast into the sea,&#8217; it will happen.  &#8220;And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.&#8221;  (Matthew 21:21-22)</p>
<p>    2)  Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.  For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.  (Matthew 7:7-8)</p>
<p>    3)  Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven.  For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.  (Matthew 18:19-20)</p>
<p>    4)  Amen, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, &#8216;Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,&#8217; and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it shall be done for him.  Therefore I tell you, all that you ask for in prayer, believe that you will receive it and it shall be yours.  (Mark 11:24-25)</p>
<p>    5)  And I tell you, ask and you will receive; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.  For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.  (Luke 11:9-13)</p>
<p>    6)  And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.  If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it.  (John 14:13-14)</p>
<p>    7)  If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you.  (John 15:7)</p>
<p>    <img src='http://www.dilipmuralidaran.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif' alt='8)' class='wp-smiley' />  It was not you who chose me, but I who chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit that will remain, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name he may give you.  (John 15:16)</p>
<p>    9)  On that day you will not question me about anything.  Amen, amen, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in my name he will give you.  Until now you have not asked anything in my name; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete.  (John 16:23-24)</p>
<p>    A lot of Christians ignore what Jesus actually says in the Bible.  They also tend to add things to the actual words to make them say something else.  If you honestly and truthfully read these quotes, without adding to them, it is very easy to see that Jesus is not saying that God will think about your prayers.  He says Biblical God will grant all your prayers.  Clearly, God doesn’t grant all prayers and this proves that Jesus was a habitual liar.</p>
<p>The many lies that Jesus told about the second coming of God</p>
<p>According to the Bible the “End Times” Should Have ALREADY Occurred! Jesus and his apostles made MANY prophecies concerning the Armageddon.  The Bible is rather clear concerning when it would happen.  Matter of fact, the Bible consistently said it would follow soon after Jesus’ death.  When you point out such verses to Christians they will try to weasel it out of it by saying Christ was talking about his “future” apostles versus the ones he was directly speaking to.  All it takes is a close examinations of the pronouns used in order to see that Christ truly did believe the end times would have happened nearly 2,000 years ago.  Keep in mind that the Bible claims it is “fit for reproof’ and Christianity “lives and dies on the resurrection and end times”. </p>
<p>If we are to believe these verses and accept that the end time prophecies failed then surely the whole book is invalid.</p>
<p>Jesus’ False Predictions:</p>
<p>1) Jesus falsely prophesies DIRECTLY to the high priest (Caiphas) that he would live to see his second coming.  Jesus uses the term “coming on the clouds of heaven”.  This clearly negates the “coming” as the resurrection but as a return to the earth on CLOUDS, not his return in human form from the dead.  Matthew 26:64 &#038; Mark 14:62.</p>
<p>&#8220;But I tell you: From now on you will see &#8216;the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power&#8217; and &#8216;coming on the clouds of heaven.&#8217;&#8221;  (Matthew 26:64)</p>
<p>Then Jesus answered, &#8220;I am; and &#8216;you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.&#8217;&#8221;  (Mark 14:62)</p>
<p>2) Jesus mistakenly tells his followers that he will return and establish his kingdom within their lifetime. Matthew 23:36 &#038; 24:34</p>
<p>Amen, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.  (Matthew 23:36)</p>
<p>&#8220;Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.  And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.  And he will send out his angels with a trumpet blast, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.  &#8220;Learn a lesson from the fig tree. When its branch becomes tender and sprouts leaves, you know that summer is near.  In the same way, when you see all these things, know that he is near, at the gates.  Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place.  Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.  (Matthew 24:29-35)</p>
<p>3) YET AGAIN, Jesus claims those standing RIGHT BEFORE HIM shall see the Armageddon.  Matthew 16:28 “There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”</p>
<p>  Don’t let Christians lie to you and claim Jesus was referring to his modern day Christians.  The words “some standing HERE will not taste death” clearly refute such nonsense.  Obviously the people he was speaking to died, and curiously Jesus STILL isn’t here to claim his kingdom.</p>
<p>4) Jesus falsely prophesies that the end of the world will come within his listeners’ lifetimes. </p>
<p>Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.  (Mark 13:30-31)</p>
<p>He also said to them, &#8220;Amen, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see that the kingdom of God has come in power.&#8221;  (Mark 9:1)</p>
<p>5) Jesus falsely predicts that some of his listeners would live to see him return and establish the kingdom of God.</p>
<p>&#8220;Truly I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God.&#8221; (Luke 9:27)</p>
<p>6) Jesus implies that he will return to earth during the lifetime of John. (John 21:22)</p>
<p>7) Jesus says that all that he describes (his return, signs in the sun, moon, wars, stars, etc.) will<br />
occur within the lifetime of his listeners.  He purposely defines their generation and NOT a future one.  Considering that NONE of those signs took place during the resurrection and that he uses the term of “Heaven and earth shall pass away”, Clearly Jesus is prophesizing that nearly 2,000 years ago Armageddon SHOULD have occurred.  Luke 21:25-33</p>
<p>&#8220;There will be signs in the sun, the moon, and the stars, and on earth nations will be in dismay, perplexed by the roaring of the sea and the waves.  People will die of fright in anticipation of what is coming upon the world, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.  And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.  But when these signs begin to happen, stand erect and raise your heads because your redemption is at hand.&#8221;  He taught them a lesson. &#8220;Consider the fig tree and all the other trees.  When their buds burst open, you see for yourselves and know that summer is now near; in the same way, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near.  Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place.  Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.  (Luke 21:25-33)</p>
<p>[Note:  Matthew 10:23 also has Jesus telling his disciples that the second coming will occur before the disciples finish preaching in Israel:  "When they persecute you in one town, flee to another. Amen, I say to you, you will not finish the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes."  (Matthew 10:23)]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Hreemkaari</title>
		<link>http://www.dilipmuralidaran.com/2007/08/rebuttal-2.html/comment-page-1#comment-122</link>
		<dc:creator>Hreemkaari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2008 13:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dilipmuralidaran.wordpress.com/2007/08/01/rebuttal-2/#comment-122</guid>
		<description>Hurry! Jesus on Free Trial&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Every religion consists of:&lt;br/&gt;1. Its core philosophy (Answers to questions like: Is there a God? &lt;br/&gt;Who am I? Am I Him? How do I find out? What are valid means of knowledge? etc).&lt;br/&gt;2. Its practices (traditions), essentially based on the core philosophy.&lt;br/&gt;3. Symbolism (Eg: The Cross in Christianity, the Star+Crescent moon in Islam etc).&lt;br/&gt;4. Important reference works (Bible, Quran, Vedas) for knowledge.&lt;br/&gt;5. Other accompanying components such as the religion&#039;s outlook towards other religious sects, its set of followers, attitude adopted for spreading the religion etc.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;If the core philosophy has strong fundamentals, the rest of the components fall in line automatically, to make it a mature religion. &lt;br/&gt;On&lt;br/&gt;the other hand, we also end up with half-baked religions. As is day-to-day experience, lesser maturity brings in aggressiveness.&lt;br/&gt;Consequently, we see a lot of aggressiveness in spreading religions today. Some logical fallacies, however, are portrayed in dialogs below.&lt;br/&gt;These are not intended to have fun at the expense of aggressive religions, but to keep ourselves informed of the less-holy tactics certain religions adopt to spread.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The following is a fictional transcript between a person called &quot;me&quot;&lt;br/&gt;(which is a set of ppl) and a typical Christian missionary. A conversation with a missionary (who is out to talk you into going to&lt;br/&gt;church) may not follow the transcript below exactly. But several conversations with missionaries on various topics will get you the answers as shown in the continuous dialog below:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Missionary: Have you heard of Jesus?&lt;br/&gt;Me: Yes&lt;br/&gt;Missionary: He has a message for you.&lt;br/&gt;Me: What?&lt;br/&gt;Missionary: Read and follow Bible, you will be in Heaven for ever!&lt;br/&gt;Me: Well I would love to know more about Christianity, but to start with – what happens if I don&#039;t believe in Jesus?&lt;br/&gt;Missionary: Believe me son, Jesus will show you the right path. In our everyday life, we commit so many sins that only Jesus can save us all from eternal Hell.&lt;br/&gt;Me: At the philosophy level Sir, I would like to know why someone should go to hell?&lt;br/&gt;Missionary: Because we all make mistakes son. Jesus has given his life-blood to save us all from the suffering that we could face. All you need to do is believe in Him.&lt;br/&gt;Me: If I make a mistake I will face the punishment. What else is a better way of purifying oneself?&lt;br/&gt;Missionary: Trust in Jesus and you will go to heaven.&lt;br/&gt;Me: You are saying that I can make mistakes, trust Jesus and go to heaven?&lt;br/&gt;No I don&#039;t think so. I prefer rebirth to face the punishment.&lt;br/&gt;Missionary: Hmmm…. Do you know why Jesus faced the cross?&lt;br/&gt;Me: I know, Jesus has already suffered for all our sins.&lt;br/&gt;Missionary: So you have to believe in Jesus. He will take care of your Sins.&lt;br/&gt;Me: No, I don&#039;t want to trouble Jesus! I will take responsibilities myself.&lt;br/&gt;Missionary: He has already suffered for our sins, you see?&lt;br/&gt;Me: Then why should I worry? I can make mistakes/sins.&lt;br/&gt;Missionary: No, that&#039;s not good for the world. And then, you have to &#039;believe&#039; in Jesus, if your sins should be absolved!!!&lt;br/&gt;Me: What were people doing before Jesus was born?&lt;br/&gt;Missionary: They felt God in their Heart.&lt;br/&gt;Me: That means that there is a way other than Jesus. I too feel in my heart the presence of God! I follow my religion and feel God within.&lt;br/&gt;Missionary: See ... I am showing you an easy way of getting satisfaction in life and beyond.&lt;br/&gt;Me: Sometime back, you said Jesus is the &quot;only&quot; way. Also your &quot;easy way&quot; seems too easy to give any serious answers to philosophical questions.&lt;br/&gt;You have self contradictions. Western philosophers other than the church have done excellent work. Seriously, I think you should go through them. After that you can actually visit eastern philosophies.&lt;br/&gt;Me: Give me those books you have… I read all religions anyway. &lt;br/&gt;Thanks!&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Probing a little deeper, I have actually had such conversations as&lt;br/&gt;follows:&lt;br/&gt;=================================================&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Missionary: Read and follow Bible, you will be in Heaven for ever!&lt;br/&gt;Me: What happens if I read the Quran or the gIta?&lt;br/&gt;Missionary: Well, they can take you some distance, but only Jesus can show you the right path.&lt;br/&gt;Me: Have you read the gIta or the Quran? Because I have gone through them, though not as a research. And I have gone thru&#039; the bible too.&lt;br/&gt;Missionary: Well Sir, if you want to discuss in detail, you are welcome to talk to my senior in the Church on Sunday. He can give you a comparitive idea.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;-----&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Missionary: Jesus has already suffered for our sins, you see?&lt;br/&gt;Me: Then why should I worry? I can make mistakes/sins.&lt;br/&gt;Missionary: You have to &#039;believe&#039; in Jesus!!!&lt;br/&gt;Me: You know, I am sure Jesus will take care of me, even if I don&#039;t believe him. Otherwise, he ends up with an ego problem, rt? You have incomplete information about Jesus.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;-----&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Me: According to Christianity, there is one life after which you either go to heaven or hell right?&lt;br/&gt;Missionary: Yeah.&lt;br/&gt;Me: But suppose I was born to a prostitute and a goon. And I always had company which was not the refined-class. Suppose throughout my life I never heard of Jesus. I made a lot of mistakes. Will I go to hell or will I get a better chance?&lt;br/&gt;Missionary: No there is only one life.&lt;br/&gt;Me: Your religion sounds funny to me and unjust.&lt;br/&gt;Missionary: Jesus will see to it that you get to know Him.&lt;br/&gt;Me: Then what are &#039;you&#039; doing here?&lt;br/&gt;Missionary: Jesus is finding you thru&#039; me.&lt;br/&gt;Me: Aww... come on now!&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;------&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Me: Tell me Sir. How is heaven?&lt;br/&gt;Missionary: It has all comforts, angels, and God is with you all the time.&lt;br/&gt;Me: How come only you came to earth and suffered while the angels never did?&lt;br/&gt;Missionary: See ... when we go to heaven, we become angels.&lt;br/&gt;Me: Oh I see. So those angels were on earth sometime earlier, struggling like you are now?&lt;br/&gt;Missionary: I think God created them to be in heaven, not come to earth. I am not sure about this concept. You can come over to the church this Sunday and talk to the father.&lt;br/&gt;Me: If God created angels to be in heaven all the time, then He was partial to them right? They always enjoy in heaven, but you are created and find yourself on earth. Your concept needs refinement. &lt;br/&gt;You know you should question a religion critically yourself, before propagating it to others.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;------&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Me: Also, I am curious about animals and trees. Do they have any scope to go to heaven?&lt;br/&gt;Missionary: Animals and trees are created only to serve mankind. &lt;br/&gt;They do not have any other purpose.&lt;br/&gt;Me: What happens when they die?&lt;br/&gt;Missionary: Am not sure, but I can find out for you Sir and call you back.&lt;br/&gt;Can I take your phone number?&lt;br/&gt;Me: Sure, ok. Also find out about children who die within days from when they are born. Do they go to heaven or hell?&lt;br/&gt;Missionary: I think children go to heaven.&lt;br/&gt;Me: But they neither did any good (nor bad) to go to heaven. Read about what your own religion says about this.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;------&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Me: I also wanted details on what state you were in before you got born.&lt;br/&gt;Missionary: God created us.&lt;br/&gt;Me: Did you not exist before?&lt;br/&gt;Missionary: No.&lt;br/&gt;Me: What does God get out of creating you and this world and all other things?&lt;br/&gt;Missionary: Nothing. He does not need/get anything. He only helps you out.&lt;br/&gt;Me: No, no. You don&#039;t need help before you were created right?&lt;br/&gt;Missionary: There are certain things that God does which we cannot understand.&lt;br/&gt;Me: Do you know that there are religions in this world which have good theories for these questions? I am sure you yourself realize that your explanation is a trivial case.&lt;br/&gt;Missionary: Well, it&#039;s your faith Sir. But then, I would still say that Jesus is the only way out.&lt;br/&gt;Me: Wow, don&#039;t you want to even hear about another theory? And you expect me to actually change my religion.&lt;br/&gt;Missionary: Sir I am sure my faith has all answers. And I am sure you will
eventually find the truth. I would like to give you this bible that you may want to peruse. If you want to discuss anything with me or the reverend, you can approach me at this number. Thank you Sir.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;------&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Anand!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hurry! Jesus on Free Trial</p>
<p>Every religion consists of:<br />1. Its core philosophy (Answers to questions like: Is there a God? <br />Who am I? Am I Him? How do I find out? What are valid means of knowledge? etc).<br />2. Its practices (traditions), essentially based on the core philosophy.<br />3. Symbolism (Eg: The Cross in Christianity, the Star+Crescent moon in Islam etc).<br />4. Important reference works (Bible, Quran, Vedas) for knowledge.<br />5. Other accompanying components such as the religion&#8217;s outlook towards other religious sects, its set of followers, attitude adopted for spreading the religion etc.</p>
<p>If the core philosophy has strong fundamentals, the rest of the components fall in line automatically, to make it a mature religion. <br />On<br />the other hand, we also end up with half-baked religions. As is day-to-day experience, lesser maturity brings in aggressiveness.<br />Consequently, we see a lot of aggressiveness in spreading religions today. Some logical fallacies, however, are portrayed in dialogs below.<br />These are not intended to have fun at the expense of aggressive religions, but to keep ourselves informed of the less-holy tactics certain religions adopt to spread.</p>
<p>The following is a fictional transcript between a person called &#8220;me&#8221;<br />(which is a set of ppl) and a typical Christian missionary. A conversation with a missionary (who is out to talk you into going to<br />church) may not follow the transcript below exactly. But several conversations with missionaries on various topics will get you the answers as shown in the continuous dialog below:</p>
<p>Missionary: Have you heard of Jesus?<br />Me: Yes<br />Missionary: He has a message for you.<br />Me: What?<br />Missionary: Read and follow Bible, you will be in Heaven for ever!<br />Me: Well I would love to know more about Christianity, but to start with – what happens if I don&#8217;t believe in Jesus?<br />Missionary: Believe me son, Jesus will show you the right path. In our everyday life, we commit so many sins that only Jesus can save us all from eternal Hell.<br />Me: At the philosophy level Sir, I would like to know why someone should go to hell?<br />Missionary: Because we all make mistakes son. Jesus has given his life-blood to save us all from the suffering that we could face. All you need to do is believe in Him.<br />Me: If I make a mistake I will face the punishment. What else is a better way of purifying oneself?<br />Missionary: Trust in Jesus and you will go to heaven.<br />Me: You are saying that I can make mistakes, trust Jesus and go to heaven?<br />No I don&#8217;t think so. I prefer rebirth to face the punishment.<br />Missionary: Hmmm…. Do you know why Jesus faced the cross?<br />Me: I know, Jesus has already suffered for all our sins.<br />Missionary: So you have to believe in Jesus. He will take care of your Sins.<br />Me: No, I don&#8217;t want to trouble Jesus! I will take responsibilities myself.<br />Missionary: He has already suffered for our sins, you see?<br />Me: Then why should I worry? I can make mistakes/sins.<br />Missionary: No, that&#8217;s not good for the world. And then, you have to &#8216;believe&#8217; in Jesus, if your sins should be absolved!!!<br />Me: What were people doing before Jesus was born?<br />Missionary: They felt God in their Heart.<br />Me: That means that there is a way other than Jesus. I too feel in my heart the presence of God! I follow my religion and feel God within.<br />Missionary: See &#8230; I am showing you an easy way of getting satisfaction in life and beyond.<br />Me: Sometime back, you said Jesus is the &#8220;only&#8221; way. Also your &#8220;easy way&#8221; seems too easy to give any serious answers to philosophical questions.<br />You have self contradictions. Western philosophers other than the church have done excellent work. Seriously, I think you should go through them. After that you can actually visit eastern philosophies.<br />Me: Give me those books you have… I read all religions anyway. <br />Thanks!</p>
<p>Probing a little deeper, I have actually had such conversations as<br />follows:<br />=================================================</p>
<p>Missionary: Read and follow Bible, you will be in Heaven for ever!<br />Me: What happens if I read the Quran or the gIta?<br />Missionary: Well, they can take you some distance, but only Jesus can show you the right path.<br />Me: Have you read the gIta or the Quran? Because I have gone through them, though not as a research. And I have gone thru&#8217; the bible too.<br />Missionary: Well Sir, if you want to discuss in detail, you are welcome to talk to my senior in the Church on Sunday. He can give you a comparitive idea.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>Missionary: Jesus has already suffered for our sins, you see?<br />Me: Then why should I worry? I can make mistakes/sins.<br />Missionary: You have to &#8216;believe&#8217; in Jesus!!!<br />Me: You know, I am sure Jesus will take care of me, even if I don&#8217;t believe him. Otherwise, he ends up with an ego problem, rt? You have incomplete information about Jesus.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>Me: According to Christianity, there is one life after which you either go to heaven or hell right?<br />Missionary: Yeah.<br />Me: But suppose I was born to a prostitute and a goon. And I always had company which was not the refined-class. Suppose throughout my life I never heard of Jesus. I made a lot of mistakes. Will I go to hell or will I get a better chance?<br />Missionary: No there is only one life.<br />Me: Your religion sounds funny to me and unjust.<br />Missionary: Jesus will see to it that you get to know Him.<br />Me: Then what are &#8216;you&#8217; doing here?<br />Missionary: Jesus is finding you thru&#8217; me.<br />Me: Aww&#8230; come on now!</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p>Me: Tell me Sir. How is heaven?<br />Missionary: It has all comforts, angels, and God is with you all the time.<br />Me: How come only you came to earth and suffered while the angels never did?<br />Missionary: See &#8230; when we go to heaven, we become angels.<br />Me: Oh I see. So those angels were on earth sometime earlier, struggling like you are now?<br />Missionary: I think God created them to be in heaven, not come to earth. I am not sure about this concept. You can come over to the church this Sunday and talk to the father.<br />Me: If God created angels to be in heaven all the time, then He was partial to them right? They always enjoy in heaven, but you are created and find yourself on earth. Your concept needs refinement. <br />You know you should question a religion critically yourself, before propagating it to others.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p>Me: Also, I am curious about animals and trees. Do they have any scope to go to heaven?<br />Missionary: Animals and trees are created only to serve mankind. <br />They do not have any other purpose.<br />Me: What happens when they die?<br />Missionary: Am not sure, but I can find out for you Sir and call you back.<br />Can I take your phone number?<br />Me: Sure, ok. Also find out about children who die within days from when they are born. Do they go to heaven or hell?<br />Missionary: I think children go to heaven.<br />Me: But they neither did any good (nor bad) to go to heaven. Read about what your own religion says about this.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p>Me: I also wanted details on what state you were in before you got born.<br />Missionary: God created us.<br />Me: Did you not exist before?<br />Missionary: No.<br />Me: What does God get out of creating you and this world and all other things?<br />Missionary: Nothing. He does not need/get anything. He only helps you out.<br />Me: No, no. You don&#8217;t need help before you were created right?<br />Missionary: There are certain things that God does which we cannot understand.<br />Me: Do you know that there are religions in this world which have good theories for these questions? I am sure you yourself realize that your explanation is a trivial case.<br />Missionary: Well, it&#8217;s your faith Sir. But then, I would still say that Jesus is the only way out.<br />Me: Wow, don&#8217;t you want to even hear about another theory? And you expect me to actually change my religion.<br />Missionary: Sir I am sure my faith has all answers. And I am sure you will<br />
eventually find the truth. I would like to give you this bible that you may want to peruse. If you want to discuss anything with me or the reverend, you can approach me at this number. Thank you Sir.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p>Anand!</p>
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		<title>By: sathyashrayan</title>
		<link>http://www.dilipmuralidaran.com/2007/08/rebuttal-2.html/comment-page-1#comment-121</link>
		<dc:creator>sathyashrayan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 17:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dilipmuralidaran.wordpress.com/2007/08/01/rebuttal-2/#comment-121</guid>
		<description>Ji.. can I post this blog link in the RSS comunity of orkut..? &lt;br/&gt;Can i contact you in any way? &lt;br/&gt;May be through email..? &lt;br/&gt;My mail id is armedhindu@gmail.com.. Please reply..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ji.. can I post this blog link in the RSS comunity of orkut..? <br />Can i contact you in any way? <br />May be through email..? <br />My mail id is <a href="mailto:armedhindu@gmail.com">armedhindu@gmail.com</a>.. Please reply..</p>
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		<title>By: AC</title>
		<link>http://www.dilipmuralidaran.com/2007/08/rebuttal-2.html/comment-page-1#comment-120</link>
		<dc:creator>AC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Dec 2007 07:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dilipmuralidaran.wordpress.com/2007/08/01/rebuttal-2/#comment-120</guid>
		<description>And it is likely to be said that there is nothing in Christianity that was not there before, either in Judaism (the root of all Abrahamic religions) or Hinduism (the root of all Dharmic religions)   Many state that one of these cannot be original as there are some weird, sometimes eerie but random, similarities (however slight the similarities may be) that may have suggested some sort of Judeo-Vedic link.  Hinduism has so far been proven to be the older one of the two, though the debate goes on...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And it is likely to be said that there is nothing in Christianity that was not there before, either in Judaism (the root of all Abrahamic religions) or Hinduism (the root of all Dharmic religions)   Many state that one of these cannot be original as there are some weird, sometimes eerie but random, similarities (however slight the similarities may be) that may have suggested some sort of Judeo-Vedic link.  Hinduism has so far been proven to be the older one of the two, though the debate goes on&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: AC</title>
		<link>http://www.dilipmuralidaran.com/2007/08/rebuttal-2.html/comment-page-1#comment-119</link>
		<dc:creator>AC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Dec 2007 07:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dilipmuralidaran.wordpress.com/2007/08/01/rebuttal-2/#comment-119</guid>
		<description>Oh, also I forgot to mention a quote I heard somewhere, though I can&#039;t remember where...&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&quot;Those who convert to Christianity are financially poor, educationally challenged, and emotionally insecure, and lacking in true faith&quot; [not an exact verbatim quote, but close enough]&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;SO TRUE!! (In most cases anyway...)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;This accounts for the wealthier people (software developers and who not) who convert - emotional instability is a powerful mover that pushes people to believe in anything that gives them hope, no matter how illogical or irrational, or even proven to be untrue, they may be.  This goes for everything, including conversions to Christianity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, also I forgot to mention a quote I heard somewhere, though I can&#8217;t remember where&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;Those who convert to Christianity are financially poor, educationally challenged, and emotionally insecure, and lacking in true faith&#8221; [not an exact verbatim quote, but close enough]</p>
<p>SO TRUE!! (In most cases anyway&#8230;)</p>
<p>This accounts for the wealthier people (software developers and who not) who convert &#8211; emotional instability is a powerful mover that pushes people to believe in anything that gives them hope, no matter how illogical or irrational, or even proven to be untrue, they may be.  This goes for everything, including conversions to Christianity.</p>
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