Indian Politics 
9 Comments On Maoists and our strategy handling them…
Before i proceed I’m going to make certain fundamental declarations on the premise of which this entire argument is going to be. They are:-
1. India as a nation is plagued by problems. The implementation of Law & Order and Civil Justice system is weak, this is a known fact.
2. Governments discriminate against certain sections of the civilian society in every state around the world and India is no different. Such discrimination can be political or could be backed by industrial lobbyists (like manufacturing giants, mining companies etc.,) or religious or cultural/ethnic groups.
3. In such a situation the usual democratic process of protesting, political reform, debate & legal recourse are the way in which deprived societies/ethnic groups come up and repeal their discriminated state. It is agreed that this methodology is not effective and does not always work towards an amicable solution.
4. An attack on a company of CRPF personnel, resulting in killing of almost the entire company is war. Put it in any way you like it, it is war and it requires to be addressed appropriately.
5. No Particular section of the society is to be provided the privilege of taking up arms against the state. If this can be extended to the Maoists then it should be extended to the Muslims for the racial stereotyping, the Brahmins for reverse racism they face, the Christians for the Hindu extremist attacks they are subject to and so on and so forth. Every community is defenseless in its own respect just like the tribal’s and they cannot be compromised. This does not mean people have the right of violence, no one in a democratic state has the right of violence.
6. The are genuine issues the tribal’s have. Land grabbing, ethnic violence/cleansing, forced conversions, rape & plunder by the military and much more all of it is something tribal’s face on an everyday basis. The political forefront of the tribal’s needs to be invited for discussions to address these issues. This is something the state has failed miserably in the past and this requires critical attention.
The Argument
Yes, i believe there should be a tactical all out offensive against the maoist rebels and they need to be put out permanently for the following reasons…
1. The Maoists like any terror group are based on pushing their agenda using Violence. Regardless of what your situation can be, the state will not respond to violence. Violence breeds violence and that’s precisely what maoist or any other violent group will get in return.
2. There is no absolute possibility for a dialogue when violence is involved. In Indira Gandhi’s words, you cannot shake hands with a clenched fist.
3. It is a known documented fact that Tribal’s are NOT able to come out of their habitat and report on Maoists. When they do so their entire villages get raided and massacred by the former. There is no denying this documented fact. This should stop. Maoists clearly are not happy with any anti maoist influences in their audience, this is typical of any militant group.
4. Development efforts can be initiated only in a land where law & order of the state government prevails in a democracy. With maoist’s, law & order is a day dream.
5. The very reason they killed CRPF personnel indicates that the maoist’s are not here to protect the interests of the tribal. Killing cops & civilians is one thing. Killing security personnel is waging war. No democracy should tolerate a group of people inside a country wage war on its own security personnel. The maoist have political agenda’s. While political agenda’s are welcome, enforcing those agenda’s with violence is not.
Use of the Armed forces or Air power:
This is a decision that should be taken with due consideration. Like the Army chief already has said very clearly, the use of army against ones own citizens is the last option but should be considered if at all the situation comes to that.
In a realistic sense, use of force will bring together collateral damage. This is a risk we have to asses and face if required. The argument “How would you feel if the army walked into your house?” is silly.
Of the Army walked into my house i wont stick around. I would get the hell out of my house. The logic is very simple. If i have terrorists hiding in my home discriminating every aspect of my life, i better have a broken house than live with terrorists. The same logic applies to maoist’s & tribal occupations as well.
Long term Solution:
Force is not the only option, it is a part of the over all package. It is the responsibility of the state to analyze the issues facing tribal population & their environment and address those immediately with the highest priority. Simply killing Tribal’s and doing nothing about the underlying problem will only lead to the rise of version 2.0 of a bigger and better maoist group.
If democracy truly works or cares for all or respects peoples rights,freedoms, as expected we dont see this social disorder.
We do not have working true democracy, it speaks.
Governments in democracy wont send militaies to oppress peoples frustations, you will identify injustices , and reach out to poor and all.
Our cast system is beeing exploited by upper casts, politicians, keeping people at starvation level
Our politicians are not servants, they are kings, our brahmins are preaching false beleives making people to accept life as worthless.
bad combination,
eventually most oopressed hindus join, CHRSTIANITY or islam.
we need democracy,
naidu
Very well written!
My views exactly. I am tired of talking sense into people who say “Maoism is the way to go and that the tribals would rather die in dignity than have their own kith and kin raped by policemen and just remain silent”.
My point is the tribals are the losers any way, whether they trust the Naxalites or the government. So might as well place your trust in the government when you know that bloody 40 odd years of Naxalist ideology has not helped you AT ALL.
When I say that Maoists need to be wiped out I get horrific glances from people who say “Dude, they are fighting a cause”
Well so are the members of Al-Queada, so were the members of LTTE. When all that seemed wrong to you why justify this? Their end objective might be noble but what are the means to the end?
I am inclined to agree with Gandhi when he said “An eye for an eye and the world will go blind”. Violence is NEVER a solution to any problem.
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Dilip Muralidaran. Dilip Muralidaran said: @offstumped http://bit.ly/c8rcQB it surprises me that indians, some of them support & synpathize anti socials! [...]
Your 2nd premise is erroneous by saying “could be backed…” It’s not an imagined possibility but is actively happening. It should say “is backed.” The backing is a two way street here with the government and corporations.
Your 4th premise is false by giving soldiers a privilege they don’t have, namely not being killed. Soldiers agree to kill and be killed in war when they sign up.
Your 5th premise is false in saying some sections of society are given privilege to take up arms. It’s not a privilege to take up arms in self-defense when one is being physically assaulted, but a RIGHT. Would you rather have a group of people stand like sheep while being murdered without fighting back? If that were the case, the assaulted will cease to exist. If citizens didn’t have this right when things come to such a pass when the execution of this right is required, it sets up the stage for genocide — which is exactly what’s happening here with fundamentalists like you calling for genocide while denying their right to self-defense by calling it a privilege. Fundamentalists like you are the ones allowing the privilege of the state to take up arms. In case you aren’t aware, this privilege of the state was used by the British Raj to oppress and kill Indians during their rule and it continues today.
Your 1st argument is ridiculously false when you consider my comments on your 2nd and 5th premise and your 1st, 3rd and 6th premises.
Your 2nd argument is yet more ridiculously false in quoting Indira Gandhi. In case you aren’t aware, she was a totalitarian dictator and not a democrat. Why is India holding dialogue with Pakistan, China and USA when those totalitarian states have practiced violence against India? Is it because they are equally or better armed than us? Got any answers?
Your 3rd argument is false because some tribals support the fascist Indian state with their Salwa Judum which claims to be a peace movement but is only enforcing political agendas with violence. It is telling since many tribals were killed by labeling them Naxals/Maoists. This is what the British Raj tactic “divide and rule” means. This very same tactic was used in Sri Lanka when Colonel Karuna switched sides to the fascist state of Sri Lanka. The racist asshole Thomas Macaulay was the progenitor of this tactic in the British Raj. The state also engages in the very same tactic. Everybody who argues, provides support and much needed services for the tribals is labeled a “Naxal Sympathizer” and are jailed and tortured and their health clinics and ashrams destroyed. This doesn’t happen in a democracy, only totalitarian states.
Your 4th argument is irrelevant due to your 1st premise.
What does your fifth argument mean? Are you saying you have no problem with Maoists killing civilians? Doesn’t that negate state responsibility for protecting civilians? The CRPF were on an “Area Domination Operation” when they were killed. How is the Indian state democratic? Your 1st and 6th premise claim that it’s not. Got any answers? Are you aware that the state is the original practitioner of “enforcing political agendas with violence” in this issue?
The issue here is the deprivation, terror, assault, deceit and robbery of tribal people by the state to gain access to massively profitable natural non-renewable resources in the name of economic growth and development. The economic growth and development is not intended for the citizens of India or even the Indian state but for the corporations and lawyers like P. Chidambaram who represent them. How many people question his naked self-interest in this matter? P. Chidambaram claims to represent vague concepts like freedom, liberty and democracy to argue for war. Exactly how the Indian state stands for those vague concepts is lost to people like me.
Why are people like you even supporting the state and its privilege given the states’ inability to protect, provide justice and ensure the welfare of its citizens? How is aerial bombardment and genocide going to solve the problems of tribal people? It only solves the problems of the corporations. By wiping out the tribals, the resources are free to be taken without significant resistance. In case you aren’t aware, a state which is based on the welfare of corporations and not the welfare of its citizens is called fascist. The British Raj was one such state which deprived, terrorized, assaulted, deceived and robbed Indians out of our resources. We just had the 80th anniversary of Gandhi’s Salt Satyagraha, but then again it’s fashionable to hate Gandhi today. By supporting this very same policy, urban Indians like you are saying that they are Brown Sahibs and pining for the British Raj. It is telling for someone claiming to be an atheist but supports a fundamentalist state which believes it has no responsibility because soldiers got killed in battle. Solders getting killed in battle is tragic but it has no priority for civilians like me. The kind of belief which gives the military the utmost priority is usually found in fascist militaristic states like Pakistan and USA.
If you are truly interested in coming up with solutions that genuinely deal with the issues, you wouldn’t pass on your responsibility to the state as you say in your long term solution. If you don’t believe it’s your responsibility as a citizen to question the state, you don’t have the right to your opinion nor are you really a citizen. Rights come with responsibilities/duties. They aren’t exclusive to each other. This whole blog post is providing support and rationalization for unchecked state privilege which is nothing but totalitarian dictatorship and not democracy. You are welcome to pass the buck (responsibility) and stay in your apathy zone, but don’t say you are interested in tribal welfare, which is a falsehood.
In a democratic state, dissent and dissenters are protected and shouldn’t be labeled “Naxal Sympathizer,” which only makes it morally easy to “deal” with them since they are now the “enemy” which results in keeping the tribals deprived. The Indian state as it is today has no interest in tribals and their rights. It can help the tribals with their welfare and capture their allegiance by winning their hearts and minds, but it won’t. The reason why it won’t is because it is apathetic to people’s welfare and functions as an enabler to corporate interests. Development and economic growth in a democracy doesn’t mean corporate fiat and SEZ’s. It means people get fairly compensated for their work and their quality of life and health indices getting improved which results in overall happiness and zest for life. That rarely happens under this state. Only the Maoists have managed to get fair compensation for the tribals’ work. We pay taxes to the state but how is our quality of life or health indices improving? Do you realize we live in densely populated and polluted concrete jungles? Isn’t it high time all of rural and deprived India got to participate in this economic growth and development which will result in our cities becoming livable because vast amounts of the rural populations don’t have to move to the cities for opportunity? Wouldn’t you want our farmer suicides to become history? Even Mani Shankar Aiyer agrees.
http://www.indiatogether.org/2010/apr/gov-judum.htm
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/i-was-always-leftist.-economic-reforms-made-me-completely-marxist/29112/0
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=20104\11\story_11-4-2010_pg7_15
There is a truly different and enlightened approach in our history which ought be used as a solution for the state of affairs we find ourselves in today. It’s called the Edicts of Emperor Ashoka and is at this link http://bit.ly/4EtbJF I suggest every Indian to first read it till it’s properly understood. The Ashoka Chakra on the Indian flag stands for these edicts. How many people know this? It would also be helpful if more citizens actually exercised their responsibilities by engaging with these issues and bombard the state for its apathy in carrying out its fundamental responsibilities. A state which has no interest in the welfare of its citizens and carries out genocide is not a state to be supported. The state doesn’t exist for the sake of the state. It exists for the welfare of the subjects of the state. If this really happened, people’s need for ideologies like Maoism will disappear on its own without any war.
The need of the moment is a Satyagraha that secures the right of our people to be FAIRLY COMPENSATED for their work without being unfairly exploited and deprived. This will result in an immediate stop to child labor and trafficking and help in them actually gaining access to their right to education. THIS IS THE ONLY WAY TO INCLUDE RURAL INDIANS IN ECONOMIC GROWTH. Simply selling India as a cheap source of labor will only result in these state of affairs to continue and the state existing for its own sake and idiots like Dr. Manmohan Singh to rest on his so-called past achievements. People in urban India are exploited by corporations with cheap labor with this call centre shit which results in people in rural India to be exploited because they have no say in these matters due to their deprivation since the state as it is today cares only about what the corporations want. Ever wonder why IT is the choice of most people for their children? Because it pays better than most other work. Do these bourgeois and Brown Sahib IT people care about these issues while they sit in their air conditioned offices and houses and sip bottled water and Coke? This “class divide” between urban and rural people is what the ideology of Maoism fights against. Why is our labor being cheap considered good when it’s really evil? Is this deprivation that the totalitarian dictator Indira Gandhi fried into our constitution with her socialism to be celebrated and continued with your support for this war? Got any answers?
You are welcome to read and comment on my blog. http://wiredvijay.wordpress.com/
What I find most appalling is the disdain and nonchalance with which you treat our soldiers and armed forces.
I was shocked to read statements like, “Soldiers agree to kill and be killed in war when they sign up” and “Soldiers getting killed in battle is tragic but it has no priority for civilians like me”
Dude. Are you for real? Soldiers don’t join the armed forces to die. At the risk of sounding extremely Bollywood-ish, they do what they do to protect you from external invasions and internal creeps like Maoists. You say you feel for the tribals and the way they are being murdered to get their resources.
So, its ok if soldiers are ruthlessly murdered for no fault of theirs, the only fault being WANTING to protect the tribals and their resources from the Maoists.
You are calling US fundamentalists, who are promoting genoicde. If killing terrorists and Maoists who have a very deluded and skewed version of what freedom is, who believe bloodshed is the means to achieve their “ideals” then yes we are promoting genocide.
I really DO believe that Maoism must systematically be wiped out from the face of this country they way LTTE was wiped out, the way I hope Al Quaeda soon will be.
OK. You don’t trust the state. You think the tribals are being mercilessly butchered “BY THE STATE”. Naxalism started in 1967. Its been 40 odd years. How much has it achieved for the tribals?
//Only the Maoists have managed to get fair compensation for the tribals’ work
Ahhh!! Pray may i ask what is this “fair” compensation for the tribals’ work that the very noble Maoists have managed to get?
Mining and plundering of resources continues to take place. They have seen little or no progress in the past 4 decades because of the presence of Maoists. Worse still, tribals are ruthlessly killed by the Maoists and because of the presence of the Maoists by the state itself who mistakes civilians for Maoists. I suggest you read the following article (Oh but then again you might just read the name of the newspaper and brand me “elitist, bourgeois, sitting in ac rooms, sipping coffee” etc.)
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303720604575169614063173730.html
You say that the state has been massacring a lot of civilians mistaking them for maoists (ref: india together article), well maoists have been attacking police lines, schools trains and innocent civilians who they believe collaborate with the state. I suggest you do read the article because Salil Tripathi talks about both sides of the issue. About the failure of the state to set up schools and public health centres and the ill effects of rapid modernization but he also says that the Maoists on the other hand offer no solution. The Maoists are under the mistaken impression that terror and violence will give them what they need.
Which brings me to another ridiculous statement which you made.
You say “we are elitist bourgeois who ‘fashionably’ hate Gandhi”.
Dude. We are ones who are actually promoting Gandhi’s ideals of non-violence and need for constructive dialogue
For all that you know about the Edicts of emperor Ashoka, I think you need to go and brush up you basic 7th standard history where Gandhiji says violence is never a solution to any problem and that “an eye for an eye will make the world go blind”
What IS your stand?
On one hand you are waxing eloquent about Gandhiji and satyagraha and on the other hadn you say stuff like “Would you rather have a group of people stand like sheep while being murdered without fighting back” which is basically the concept of an eye for an eye. Isnt it? It looks like me that you seem to be more anti-Gandhi than we are.
You say stuff like it is RIGHT to take up arms. Sure lets all take up arms and shoot every time we see that the state is not acting according to our wishes. So yeah. Next time when you stop on a traffic signal and see a policeman taking bribe, be sure to shoot him ok? Its your right to take up arms and fight back any kind of injustice. Anyway policemen getting killed is only tragic for you but it has no priority right? Yes, I am still not able to get over that statement of yours where you sound like you will probably be more considerate to a mosquito in your house than to our jawans. Its YOU who lives in air conditioned comfort who has no FREAKING idea what our jawans have to go through every single day, day after day, living in sub zero temperatures just so that YOU can sleep in peace and you have the audacity to say it doesnt affect you???? GAH!!!!
Our solution is to track down Maoists and shoot them down and let the state negotiate with the tribals and give them a better way of life. I am not saying the state would have performed wonders has Maoists not been there but their presence HAS definitely hindered the progress of the tribals.
If left to people like you the country would completely be under the control of revolutionary organizations who believe violence is the solution for everything. We would rather trust the state and the existent albeit weak democracy.
// This “class divide” between urban and rural people is what the ideology of Maoism fights against
HAHAHA! That completely proves what a deluded person you are if you think that Maoism nobly fights the class divide. Do you have ANY idea how much the Maoists spend on weapons? Do u have any idea how much money they have? Where do you think all the money comes from if they are indeed “poor” and are just fighting the “class divide”. Maoists are selfish bastards who have nothing but their own interests in mind.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/sunday-toi/special-report/The-Maoist-empire-Rs-1500-crore-counting/articleshow/5783114.cms
Read this! And you will know that the Maoist empire is worth 1500 crore. Man! They sure are very poor and really struggling to fight the cruel class divide.
Dilip is not saying the government is the best and shall offer solutions instantly. There is no nation in this world whose people are completely happy with the state. But the solution is not Naxalism, violence and taking up arms. If every country did that the world would be an extremely ugly place to live in. We have seen what is happening in Israel/Palestine, Afghanistan and so many other places. Yes I am comparing Maoists with the Taliban. The Taliban oppress the people because they have screwed up ideas of what Islam preaches. Maoists are worse because in the name of helping the people they oppress them because they have screwed up ideas of freedom and liberation.
You keep blaming the state and the government’s inaction. What have you done from your side except leave flaming comments on other people’s blog. People like you are only capable of criticizing and passing negative comments about the state without actually having the balls to do something positive and constructive for the society. If the likes of you, Arundhati Roy and all really cared you would be OUT there in Dandakarnaya educating the tribals and doing what little you can to make their life a little better and not sit in YOUR air conditioned offices and wax eloquent about state failure.
Do NOT blame us of sitting in AC comfort. Have you spoken to the tribal people? Do you know that they prefer the Maoists to the state or is the role of protecting the tribes taken by the Maoists themselves. Have you been to even one Naxal affected district? I believe you have been reading too much of Arundhati Roy and her rambling 19500 word essay on Maoists where she notices stuff like “He could only count up till 20”, “They are very environment friendly people who leave no mess”. She makes the issue so trivial and dilutes such an important topic and romanticizes the whole issue by providing only a one sided argument. The only thing she does well is throw barbs at the government, which is what she does best.
Its negative people like you who make me SICK, who think the best solution to any problem is to point fingers at others or to resort to violence. I do not have the time or the inclination to read about your edicts of Ashoka but as far as I know Ashoka was one who strongly believed in Ahimsa, love, tolerance and truth, none of which your dear Maoists seem to be following.
I think you need to pinch yourself, wake up, stop being extremely negative and see what you can do to contribute rather than grumbling about how the state does nothing for the tribals.
I know that this long comment will have little or no influence on you and people like you would still continue to ask stupid questions like, “Is India really a democracy?”, “Is the government doing enough for people” because you are only capable of asking questions and not finding out positive solutions.
@rknaidu: does your comment have any relevancy? Its funny you turn this into an anti Brahmin thing now, wow: P
@Revs_R: Thanks, precisely my feelings. Trusting a group of people who practice violence is not funny, people don’t understand this.
@Vijay Venkatesh: Wow, a detailed comment indeed. I don’t even know where to begin so let me summarize things you said in short and address it and then add things to top it off with my views.
You say:-
1. State does preach violence against tribals and they are deprived. They are being discriminated and they need to retaliate.
My Take: I’ve never denied this. In fact it is my 2nd premise if you cared to read properly. My problem is tit for tat. Violence in defense of oneself is acceptable but violence against all opposition forces is not. This is what Maoists are about. Violence & Violence only.
2. You think I support genocide of tribal’s.
My Take: You are confused/mistaken/wrong. I support elimination of the violent front of the tribal’s represented by Maoists. I don’t support killing of tribal people. While there are many tribal people who actively join the Maoist movement and involve themselves in the fight, it is a risk one faces when fighting against the state. Like Indian soldiers, Maoists did not agree not to hurt or killed when they joined the clan. However I won’t be unkind like you to say “soldiers agreed to die”. I think your statement is terribly immature and naive. Soldiers agree to guard the lives of civilians & the state with their lives. Nobody signs up to die, soldiers included. Soldiers sign up to place the safety of their lives before your’s and mine so that you’re right, to justify the killing of soldiers for the mistakes of the state is preserved. NO human life is negotiable at any time, tribals, soldiers or civilians.
What I support is the elimination of a terror group. A group that spends crores of money on arms/ammunition’s in the international terror market and less on tribal peoples education, reforms. A group that has direct links with external terrorist organizations where they train, get trained and support and implement anti civilian operations.
Here are some difficult to swallow facts:-
http://offstumped.wordpress.com/2010/04/07/evangelical-christian-maoist-nexus-must-be-investigated/
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Filipino-insurgents-in-league-with-Maoists/articleshow/5785852.cms
Here is something on the business of being Maoist.
http://www.mumbaimirror.com/article/3/201004112010041103494768066ee0ac4/Intelligence-agencies-believe-Maoists%E2%80%99-annual-turnover-is-almost-Rs-1500-crore.html
It’s purely a terror business with money as the motive and nothing more. I ask, can you provide concrete figures about how much Maoists have invested in the education + reforms of tribal people. I also need concrete figures on how much of environmental conservation initiatives have been implemented by the Maoists, your so called torch bearers of the tribal peoples cause.
4. You Claim im anti-gandhi.
I agree, im totally anti-gandhi in some ways. I find Gandhi’s principles such as not reacting when people are hurling violence at you and tolerating to the point of toleration being mistaken for weakness and cowardice Gandhi’s finest examples of his religious stupidity. On the other hand though, im completely on sync with his “an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind” advice. So yes, I agree and disagree with him on several fronts. What seems to be your case is that you have this mistaken sense of pro-gandhism where you consider the state (that Gandhi helped create in the first place) is the villain at all times and tribal people the victims.
The reality however is the state is the villain sometimes and the tribal people are always the victims. The perpetrator here is the Maoist who manipulates the tribal peoples cause for their own benefits. The Maoist don’t believe in a debate/argument like the ones you and I have. They believe in the rule of the land with an iron fist, on other words its called dictatorship or totalitarianism.
Here is something you could read to get some facts.
http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?264678
The army general of India has repeatedly confirmed that tribal’s who want to come forward and hold talks with the government are repeatedly shot and killed by the Maoist hence there is no possibility of a dialogue. The Maoist want to be the exclusive representative of the tribal people, I hope this gives you an idea why they are bad.
Long long ago, in a country called Afghanistan, after Russia pulled out the mujahedeen group had too much arms provided by the USA and took power and placed a corrupt rule on the country. It so happened that once a Pakistani truck laden with businessmen was stopped at a check post and demanded exorbitant sums of money. The Pakistani government sent a small troop of miscreants who blew up the check post and made safe passage for similar Pakistani trucks. The group gained fame initially amongst the Afghani people and they eventually came to be known as the Taliban. People supported the violence and ultimately the Taliban was the new mujahedeen & it was even worse.
This is precisely the kind of cause you are supporting. You support an armed militant group thinking they will help the tribal’s. Unfortunately the militant group wants Political power at the cost of lives more than helping the tribal’s. What will happen is that this will lead to the rise of a Taliban like organization in Indian soil.
5. You claim I sit in A/C rooms and do nothing but preach genocide.
We’re no different. You preach genocide of Indian civilians and killing of Indian soldiers/CRPF/cops too. At least I support killing an anti-national/anti-social element.
Please don’t tell me you don’t have air conditioning living in Chennai, it’s not my fault.
-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
Apart from that one of your links was from a Pakistani news paper. Seriously? So you now think Pakistani newspapers will print neutral & balanced view especially when it involves the Indian government? Really? I never knew that.
You seem to take exquisite joy in calling me a fundamentalist. I agree im a fundamentalist when it comes to supporting democracy and peaceful dialogue. I would rather have people talk and take 5 years to fix a problem than one of the parties in the conversation kill the other to shut him up.
One does not need to know the teachings of Emperor Ashoka to understand peace. Can you advise the Maoist do the same, read up on Ashoka? I bet you can’t. Peace is the simplest concept one can understand. It’s about not endangering the peaceful living and pursuit of happiness of any individual in a rational manner. You and I both know this. The State forgets this and the Maoist ignore this. As for your rant on I do nothing, you are mistaken. I pay my taxes and I cast my vote in every election. I make a 9 to 5 living, what do you expect me to do? Give up my profession and let my family starve while I go dialogue with the Maoist’s? Can you do the same?
Since nobody knows who I am because I don’t blow my own horn, here’s a bit of info:
This is a close relative of mine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._V._K._Sampath
This is a distant relative of mine: http://www.fastcompany.com/node/42111/print
Actual state of relationship is not being mentioned to respect privacy concerns.
Here goes my reply to Revs:
You have misunderstood my comments about soldiers. What I meant was soldiers know the possibility of being killed in wars and signup to become soldiers knowing this RISK. This is what I meant by saying “Soldiers agree to kill and be killed in war when they sign up.”
What I’m objecting to is the jingoism of shock and surprise over the deaths of the CRPF personnel as though soldiers dying in war is some new phenomena.
What I’m objecting to is the jingoism of using soldiers by politicians to gain support from urban India for their war on rural India.
I’m objecting to the war because P. Chidambaram uses the same justifications to go to war as George W. Bush. Bush allowed the war plan to be executed without a development plan because he was interested in American Corporations gaining control of Iraq’s Oil. There was never any development plan for Iraq. I’m objecting to the same from happening in India. I want to see the development plan first since I’m not interested in getting deceived by the state. That’s the reason for my objection of this war. I’m asking the state to publish the development plan for rural India for everyone to read and discuss first. This is how democracies work.
I know very well what sacrifices soldiers make and the pains they go through since I am from the Kshatriya Varna.
I still don’t get why you are concerned for the soldiers and their presumed innocence given the crimes they have been committing. Why is there not the same concern about Naxalite deaths? Because you believe they are terrorists who kill civilians? The state is practicing terrorism by killing civilians. You are justifying this by saying the state mistakes tribals for Maoists. Then why the concern when Maoists kill civilians? Can’t you justify this by saying the Maoists mistake tribals for state supporters? This one-sided concern is what I’m objecting to. I’m objecting the privilege you give for state violence because it claims to be a “democracy.” The dissenter in me disagrees about India’s democratic credentials. You are mistaken if you believe voting alone makes a country democratic. Iraq had voting and yet it isn’t a democracy. Afghanistan had voting and yet it isn’t a democracy. America had voting and yet it isn’t a democracy. Pakistan had voting and yet it isn’t a democracy. India has voting and yet it isn’t a democracy.
Why is that? Because none of these states truly care about considering the diversity of point of views and feedback for it to function like a democracy.
Maoism is an ideology whereas the LTTE is the name of a group of people. It’s possible to wipe out the leadership of a group like LTTE but it’s impossible to wipe out the “idea” of Maoism. Perhaps you meant wiping out Maoists?
Naxalism may be 40 old years old but tribal wars and resistance were common during British rule. Naxalism is the name given to the continuance of this phenomena. Do read their history.
India doesn’t have the capacity to print money out of thin air to fight wars like the USA. You are seriously deluded if you believe India can financially afford a “War on Terror.” A Civil War/genocide will be disastrous on the economic, social and political landscape of India given the size difference of rural Vs. urban populations and will leave her exposed and weak to her neighbors.
Fair compensation = higher wages than what they were previously earning. The Maoists did achieve that as reported in the India Together article and hence you are wrong in stating that tribals haven’t achieved progress and development DUE to the Maoists.
I did read the article in WSJ by Salil Tripathi a few days back. I can’t comment about portions criticizing Arundhati Roy in the WSJ article since I’m yet to read her Outlook Magazine article.
Since you don’t understand the concept of moral behavior and self-defense, do read my blog to understand what the idea means in Dharmic traditions.
You confuse my comment about the ideology of Maoism (class divide) with Maoists, their mode of operation and their economy. The Ideology of Maoism does indeed fight against class divide. What you are saying would be similar to saying Christians don’t believe Mary was a virgin. Ideologies contain beliefs professed by people who belong to the said group. You can read about Maoism at http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/works/red-book/
Indian Maoists are engaging in the same modus operandi (corruption) that is practiced by Indian politicians, businessmen and criminals. What they are doing is peanuts compared to what goes on in the name of state business. You point to Rs. 1500 crore. I would like to point you to extortion, looting, and robbery of an estimated Rs. 71 lakh crores that has been happening through the Indian state. Rs. 1500 crore is pocket change compared to Rs. 71 lakh crores. What is your point? Haven’t you read about the Tehelka sting operations which exposed so much shit? Are you living under a rock? I am guessing ideologically blind is what you are by giving the state primacy over and above the Maoists even after the expose of journalists like the Tehelka reporters. Our so-called upcoming superpower/ultrapower/hyperpower Indian “pseudo-democratic” state hunted and destroyed Tehelka if you care to remember.
http://election.rediff.com/interview/2009/mar/31/inter-swiss-black-money-can-take-india-to-the-top.htm
The concept of class is actually alien to Indian thought. It was introduced in India by the Victorian British who believed our concept of Varna and caste was the same as their concept of class with its hierarchy, rigidity and eugenic racial purity. I case you aren’t aware, Eugenics is the comprehensive and official policy that was implemented by the Nazis in Germany.
Brown Sahibs accepted the idea first because they believed it made them “civilized” and also because it allowed them access to education and jobs under their administration. It is understandable how Brahmins/Kshatriyas filled these roles because they were the caste who were involved with learning, teaching/administration in traditional Indian society.
The Indian concept of social organization is called Varna and is based on what is known as the “division of labor” which means people were organized by the kind of work they did. The concept of Varna is very fluid since people could take up any kind of work depending on their aptitude, skill and education and our present problems with caste identity politics are due to the acceptance of Victorian Class/Caste System by most Indians for their personal identity, livelihood concerns and by their racist “divide and rule” policy during their administration. Our concept of Varna gives all the castes equal status for the functioning of society. If one Varna refuses to practice its dharma, the entire society has problems.
Imagine for a moment if all barber and washermen castes organized a strike. It would result in everyone looking like cave men. Or imagine if all barber and washermen castes were paid pittance for their labor (Rs. 10/day of work instead of Rs. 500/day of work) because the higher castes think they can save money by making labor cheap. Punishment would be implemented via structural violence and result in their “disciplining” by the local Brown Sahib hawaldars for not complying with their order. Their social-economic development would become stunted and their resulting poverty will result in them loosing political representation because now they are spending all the energies on survival issues and their quality of life and health indices will be in the gutter. I believe Indian people need liberating from this “socially ingrained over generations” concepts of the Victorian British Raj. That would be accomplished with careful and thorough reform of all forms of governance. All political parties in India suffer from this malady because few if anybody are talking about these things and these are issues affecting every Indian’s well being. The tribal people would probably be called as Shudras.
I don’t support the state practice of violence for political agendas (occupying states with insurgencies and killing civilians). I don’t support the Maoist practice of violence for political agendas (show-trials, beheadings, etc). I don’t support the Hindutva practice of violence for political agendas. (Ayodhya, Gujarat) Interesting thing about the Hindutvadis is that their ultra super great leader Savarkar is a big fan of Herbert Spencer who was one of the ideologues whose ideas were consolidated into Eugenics of the Nazis. Herbert Spencer was the guy who invented the now discredited phrase “Survival of the fittest.” It is not the way of our dharma. Our Dharma has always instructed us to help the poor and disadvantaged. That doesn’t mean the state or the groups within it don’t have the right to their respective self-defenses. Since the Indian state has continued to engage in British administrative practices like the deprivation, terror, assault, deceit and robbery of tribal people, it only makes sense for them to use violence for the sake of their preservation. The condition of the tribals in India today is because the state hasn’t given up on its Fascist British predatory governance and administrative policies and Gandhi’s Panchayat Raj is in the dustbin.
The difference of opinion between fundamentalists like you and people like me here is about whose welfare and defense has priority. I believe it’s the citizens’ welfare that has priority because the state exists for the sake of its subjects as mentioned in the Edicts of Emperor Ashoka. I do agree with you about the soldiers’ sacrifice and struggle in a FUNCTIONING DEMOCRATIC STATE. But I also know and agree it’s used by the state and its supporters to strangle free speech to silence dissenters.
Me leaving comments on other people’s blogs? I rarely comment on blogs and the reason I commented here was because Dilip and me were arguing about this topic on Twitter and Dilip said he would write a blog post to explain his premises. Hence my reply to him is a continuation of my discussion with him. I don’t see how this is a problem to you since this isn’t your blog.
Me being negative, blaming, complaining, etc? LOL! Do you know what the word dissent means? I hope you know how to use a dictionary. I have already talked about my solution to this problem in the last 2 paragraphs of my 1st reply to Dilip. Did you miss it? And yes, I’ve visited Naxal Districts. My mother’s ancestral native place is in Andhra Pradesh. You may not have the inclination to read and understand the Edicts of Emperor Ashoka but don’t accuse me of not reading/considering/trying to understand the positions of people like Salil Tripathi. Not considering other people’s point of view is dogma and is the fundamentalist’s creed and modus operandi AKA The Taliban.
My reply to your ridiculing my statements about Gandhi, the right to take arms, etc is found in my reply to Dilip below. Do read it.
Here goes my reply to Dilip:
1. I said tribals have a right to self-defense when suffering from state violence even if it is the Maoists who are representing tribals. I did read what you wrote. I suggest you read what you wrote and my comment. What I was objecting to is you saying Maoists don’t have the right to take arms in your 5th premise whereas you are committing logical fallacy of Red Herring by bringing in the 2nd premise to this argument.
2. Please read my comment to Revs about your misunderstanding about my soldier comment. I’m not “justifying” the killing of soldiers. What I am objecting to there is in my reply to Revs. You were the one saying on Twitter that civilian deaths were acceptable during the all out war. Then I asked you why you were worried about being killed by Maoists when civilians die due to state violence and Maoist violence. Then you said your life was most important to you. I’m not the one deciding which civilian lives other than mine that can be “sacrificed.” That is the selfish justifying of killing of civilians and is violence. Supporting such state violence in killing of civilians is genocide. That’s what I am objecting to and I am not the one hiding behind soldiers deaths with faulty premises.
You are wrong in saying Maoists = Terrorists. Even the Outlook article by B. Raman that you posted says the following about Maoists:
“Can we compare them to radical Islamist groups?
One cannot. The jihadi terrorism is an urban movement. The Maoist movement is a rural insurgency. The jihadi terrorism is a religious movement against non-Muslims. The Maoist movement has nothing to do with religion. The Maoists don’t believe in religion. The Maoist movement is a movement of the rural have-nots. The Maoists are Indian citizens. It is an indigenous insurgent movement. The jihadis are a mix of radicalised Muslims from India and Pakistan. They are trained in Pakistan by its Inter-Services Intelligence with the help of Pakistani jihadi organisations such as the Lashkar-e-Toiba (LET). The jihadi movement is a global movement. The Maoist movement is not.”
I told you on Twitter that equating Maoists with terrorists is a logical fallacy called Red Herring and yet you continue to commit this fallacy.
India is a country which spends crores of money on arms/ammunition in the international arms market and less on its citizens’ education, health or reforms. Hell, even we citizens pay “education cess.” India buys weapons and gets training from fascist militaristic countries like Israel and USA and uses it to implement its anti-tribal policy.
I’ve read your 3 links before. Do read my reply to the Rs. 1500 crores link to Revs above since it applies to you too. I hope you have answers for my comment. I’m not denying the Maoists’ economy and neither am I denying the Indian state’s economic policy which is purely a terror policy to consolidate resources and enable massive profits for corporations and their lawyers. I don’t understand why you are asking me figures for the Maoists’ economy or their environmental initiatives. Did I announce myself as their spokesperson? I already told you on Twitter that I don’t identify myself with Maoism or Jihadism (American Terrorism). Yet another logical fallacy called Ad Hominem since I said I believe in their cause and not their ideology. I believe in questioning the Indian state since I’m a citizen and it’s my responsibility.
Statement # 3 is missing in your reply.
4. Wrong. I’m not claiming you are anti-Gandhi. I said “We just had the 80th anniversary of Gandhi’s Salt Satyagraha, but then again it’s fashionable to hate Gandhi today.” I meant that as a support for Gandhians like Irom Sharmila, Binayak Sen, JNU students, etc, and the fundamentalist hatred they are getting today and wasn’t even directed at you personally. The state we have is Gandhi’s creation? LOL, you are ridiculously false. Where’s the Panchayat Raj that Gandhi wanted and which Mani Shankar Aiyer is still working for it to become reality? Neither does the state believe in a debate/argument like we are having here. I’m waiting for our so-called democratic state to publish its so-called development plans for rural India and allow discussion and take our feedback to formulate policy and then claim its so-called democratic credentials. Else it’s a totalitarian state which emotionally manipulates urban India into war using soldier deaths. Does the state have fool-proof plans to avoid civilian deaths which will result from its proposed war?
I don’t have a comment for your anti-Gandhi stance or your imagination of my judgement/assessment about Gandhi and his ideas, beliefs and behavior since I haven’t professed them here.
5. I said “Do these bourgeois and Brown Sahib IT people care about these issues while they sit in their air conditioned offices and houses and sip bottled water and Coke?”
Again you take this personally while I said that in the context of my Indian Express link about Mani Shankar Aiyer’s speech at the CII. I said on Twitter that I support counter-insurgency operations for Maoist killings of civilians. Not P. Chidambaram’s retarded “Area Domination Operation.” Since I support counter-insurgency against Maoists for the killings of civilians and also for their capture and trial in court, would you support a PIL against the state for its killings of civilians in all insurgency hit Indian states since India became a Republic? Yes or No?
Now for your general commentary:
I posted a link above to an article about Indian black money in Swiss accounts and it says L K Advani supports getting that money to India. Is that biased because a Hindutvadi is given prominence in it? Does that make me a Hindutvadi? What is wrong in linking a Pakistani newspaper article? Does that make me a terrorist? Don’t Indians have freedom to read Pakistani newspapers or is that treason in the totalitarian Indian state? Here’s a fact. All news is biased. Nobody is infallible. Neither me, you or Emperor Ashoka. Ashoka initiated his reforms after he publicly accepted his war crimes, self-examined his beliefs and instituted reforms that were truly historic on an global scale which transformed the Mauryan Empire from a predatory carefree existence to an enlightened democracy that cared about the welfare of its subjects. That is the mark of a truly great man. I’ve followed Emperor Ashoka’s example when I’ve made fallacious mistakes during discussions in public in the past on some forums. I’m not saying to this to claim some vague allegiance to him but to tell you about the seriousness of my commitment to his ideas. Nobody hands us 100% neutral or unbiased news on a silver platter. We ought to use our critical thinking faculties to discern what’s true or false and interesting or useless. It’s taught in Dharmic traditions if you are interested about it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anekantavada
I was suggesting Indian citizens to read the Edicts of Emperor Ashoka since the Ashoka Chakra on the Indian flag stands for these edicts. Again you take my Brown Sahib IT people comment personally while I said that in the context of my Indian Express link about Mani Shankar Aiyer’s speech at the CII. I hope you read and understand what he says about masses and classes which is what I was referring to. The fascist Indian state follows Fascism and the Maoists follow Maoism. Only Gandhians like Irom Sharmila, Binayak Sen, JNU students, etc, care about Emperor Ashoka’s Edicts.
Fundamentalist or free-thinker? Got any answers?
Fin
Surprising that nobody has mentioned the Tehelka investigation throughout! http://www.tehelka.com/channels/Naxal/page.asp